Apple Macbook verse Dell M1330

[mornish]

I'm getting a laptop.

right now, I think I'm leaning towards the macbook, but please post any experiences with either.


thank you, Miles



also, Id be getting the Black macbook if I got that one.

[evil-nick]

I've got a Macbook, and I love it. It's fast, stable, and works. I don't have to worry about virii or spyware, and I very, very rarely ever have problems with needing a MS product. Unless you're really attached to the black one, I'd actually get the white one and upgrade the RAM or the harddrive yourself (I forget which it has less of). Doing it yourself is much cheaper than paying for the black one, and is really reall easy to do (I replaced the stock 60G on mine with a 160G, and it took about 5 minutes). More space means you can dual boot with Windows if you still want it (I need it for work). I do find that it gets about double the battery life running under OSX than Windows. I get 4.5 hours under OSX, and about 3 under Windows, and the battery is a year old. I got 5hours from OSX when I got it last summer.

In the end, if you decide you don't like Mac OSX, you can always install Windows on it and forget about OSX :) Or Linux, linux runs sweeet :D

[_Ground_Zero_]

soooo much more u can do w/ microsfot. its way better. not kool easy use stuff, but wya better for games, documents, and more tech stuff. and the mac is for music, accesibility, fun design, graphics. i always side w/ microsoft cause i do online PC gaming and tech stuff, but the decision is urs.

[mornish]

okay.

macbook it is then, unless some new laptop comes out before september.


also, if anyone is in college and wants to lend me their student id number so i can get a discount it would be appreciated:p :rolleyes: :) ;)

[mornish]

an advantage to the dell i just found out though is that the dell has an LED screen.

[dangerlaef]

soooo much more u can do w/ microsfot. its way better. not kool easy use stuff, but wya better for games, documents, and more tech stuff. and the mac is for music, accesibility, fun design, graphics. i always side w/ microsoft cause i do online PC gaming and tech stuff, but the decision is urs.


Of course you can run XP on a macbook, & play all your microsoft games.

Can you run OSX on a Dell? ;)

[mornish]

Of course you can run XP on a macbook, & play all your microsoft games.

Can you run OSX on a Dell? ;)

thats what ive been thinking.

my brother (cumputer geek that he is) is trying to get me to get the dell one, saying its faster and and better, but i like the mac programs.


has anyone here tried one of the dell M1330s?

Id like to see how the keyboards and touchpads compare.

[dangerlaef]

thats what ive been thinking.

my brother (cumputer geek that he is) is trying to get me to get the dell one, saying its faster and and better, but i like the mac programs.


has anyone here tried one of the dell M1330s?

Id like to see how the keyboards and touchpads compare.


I can't say for the Dell,
but my Macbook has 2ghz Intel core Duo & 2gb RAM,
& runs IL2 Sturmovik awesomely!

I tend to use OSX for everything else though.

Re: touchpads.. emergency use only. Get a mouse.

[captainkrunk61]

My friend has a Macbook pro and runs Windows Vista, and two versions of Linux because he hates Mac OSX. He's stupid I think. But he does have a point about mac hardware. HE priced out a dell laptop with the same specs as his $2000 mac, and it came out to be over $4000. So, no matter OS you like, buy a mac.

[onelesscar]

an advantage to the dell i just found out though is that the dell has an LED screen.
The 15" Macbook Pros have LED screens too. Not sure about the regular Macbooks though.

[LegoBoy]

Definitely get the MacBook!

[beginnerdad]

Here's a nice site for comparison purposes.
http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/laptop/2007/0605_lt2800.html

[mornish]

The 15" Macbook Pros have LED screens too. Not sure about the regular Macbooks though.

where did you find that out? i cant find anything about it on the apple site.

[Joseppi]

As I'm going to college in my university's school of engineering, I might be biased, but I would say:

If you're using your laptop for music/images/videos/etc, get the Macbook; if you're using your laptop for anything otherwise functional, get the Dell.

[onelesscar]

where did you find that out? i cant find anything about it on the apple site.
http://www.google.com/search?q=macbook+pro+led&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[austingillespie]

Go with the Macbook

[brendan]

what are the specs of both machines? give us detailed specs. Usually macs are very underpowerfull compared to a windows laptop. And people have to stop calling them PC's cause macs are PC's too now.

problem with macs is that they look snazzy but u get it nicked. The other problem is that they are usually very underspecced compared to their windows counterparts. look at the graphics cards and you'll see what i mean at equal price their specs leave something to desire.

also just to add - mac OS X (x86 version) works on a normal windows PC as long as you have SSE3 - so requiring an amd athlon 64 (at least venice core or better) or an intel P4 class processor. Now i'm not too sure on the legality of it - but if u buy the OS surely they cant stop u from shoving it on a windows PC can they?

also consider Linux if you want mac style stability no virus. And whilst macs have no known viruses (or very very few) they can get intrusions. So you still need a firewall - as you do with linux. However its much harder to really intrude. But still a neccesary protection.

With linux u can run more games than Mac OS X can with Cedega - its free (cedega costs a very small amount) - can run many windows apps with Wine (free) or crossoffice (small fee), has loads of free and legal applications and apart from some very specialised proffesional software such as 3dsmax and autocad (i think the latter works with wine actually) it does everything a normal computer user needs with rock stability.

[jamessd]

^^^what he said, and how much are you willing to spend? If there's one thing I can say, then Toshibas are certainly awesome. It's looking like the prices have gone up right now, and I don't know about the availability in america, but a few months back I got this laptop [new] for £900 (around$1800) with:

- 2gb RAM
- 169gb HDD
- 512mb dedicated graphics
- Intel core 2 duo, 2.16 Ghz (4.32 overall)
- 15.4 inch screen
- Vista home premium

What I have is much more than adequate for me and I've had no problems.

I wouldn't have had a budget for this beast, however here is one awesome laptop i'd certainly love! http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/product.do?sku=406732&tab=specification#spec

One more thing, people say you don't get attacks and viruses on Macs because of their good security - whereas the truth is that nobody makes them for macs as so little people have them.

[johnfoss]

soooo much more u can do w/ microsfot. its way better.Yes, you can battle viruses, spyware, and all the other nasties that are constantly being written for the Windows environment. And Microsoft itself, with its constant updates, which are a good thing, but usually require you to reboot each time.

When I use my Macs, I turn them on and generally start doing whatever I turned them on to do. When I used Windows I turn the machine on, have to wait for updates to my antivirus software, Microsoft updates to the OS, reboot, fix other problems, and then maybe I can remember why I turned it on in the first place.

Many PC games run on the Mac now, but not all. If games are your primary interest the Windows hardware may be better. For everything else I highly recommend the Mac.

Usually macs are very underpowerfull compared to a windows laptop. Often a misconception. Graphics? Maybe the Mac OS doesn't need as much horespower for its graphics to work. I'm not an expert, but that seems to be the case. True, you're paying for what is usually a better-looking and more ergonomic product. Also one that works. What's the price of a computer that you don't have to dick around with as much as a Windows machine?

Yes I also read about the LED panel on the 15" MacBook Pros (not sure about the regular MacBook. Apple's web site? That's not where you go to learn about product performance and specs. Go to review sites. I read about the new screens in Macworld magazine.

Get the Mac. If you really need to, you can always run Windows with a dual-boot, or in the background with Parallels (which I have). It seems like I have to start it up twice every other time I use it though, due to updates...

[onelesscar]

Usually macs are very underpowerfull compared to a windows laptop.
Okay, totally not true. What are you comparing here? Macs use the exact same processors as PCs now, as well as the same video cards, same hard drives, etc...so I'm not sure what you mean.

problem with macs is that they look snazzy but u get it nicked.
Umm...also not true in my experience. I have a friend who is really hard on equipment...and his Powerbook more than takes his abuse. The Macbook Pro cases are aluminum, while the Dell cases are plastic. My Dell case has already started to crack.

The other problem is that they are usually very underspecced compared to their windows counterparts. look at the graphics cards and you'll see what i mean at equal price their specs leave something to desire.
Okay, you might have a point here. Macs may have a lesser video at the same total system price, but I think this is totally justified, as most people don't need a powerful video card. If you do, you probably need the expensive/powerful comp to go with it.

also just to add - mac OS X (x86 version) works on a normal windows PC as long as you have SSE3 - so requiring an amd athlon 64 (at least venice core or better) or an intel P4 class processor.
Yes, you can install OSX on a PC (I have it on my Dell), but it is difficult or impossible to find drivers for the sound card, wireless card, video card, and power management. So, though I can run OSX just fine, it is pretty much useless for anything practical.

However, it is simple (and encouraged by Apple!) to install Vista on a Mac, with full drivers.

And whilst macs have no known viruses (or very very few) they can get intrusions. So you still need a firewall - as you do with linux.
Macs (as well a Windows machines) come with a built-in firewall.

With linux u can run more games than Mac OS X can with Cedega - its free (cedega costs a very small amount) - can run many windows apps with Wine (free) or crossoffice (small fee), has loads of free and legal applications and apart from some very specialised proffesional software such as 3dsmax and autocad (i think the latter works with wine actually) it does everything a normal computer user needs with rock stability.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here...a Mac can run an actual copy of Vista or XP natively, without emulation like Wine or Cedega. This means it can run all Windows programs, not just "most". Furthermore, with the new version of Parallels on Mac, you can run both Mac and XP/Vista at the same time: http://www.parallels.com/files/upload/1/coherence02.png.

[johnfoss]

problem with macs is that they look snazzy but u get it nicked.Notice Brendan is from the UK. Nicked means *stolen.* Because it's so cool-looking. Plus its a great computer. Definitely if you're going to be in a theft-prone environment, get an ugly laptop.

Or you can do what many urban bike owners do with their "beater" machines. Paint it colors that are so ugly, or in a pattern so unique, it's too "odd" to interest thieves. This may not work as well with laptops as with bikes though....

[onelesscar]

Notice Brendan is from the UK. Nicked means *stolen.* Because it's so cool-looking. Plus its a great computer. Definitely if you're going to be in a theft-prone environment, get an ugly laptop.
hahaha...Thanks John for clearing that up :)

[jamessd]

http://www.parallels.com/files/upload/1/coherence02.png.

That is damn awesome ^^

[Chexjc]

I have a macbook. I love it.

You won't even end up installing Windows after you get comfortable with OSX.

[evil-nick]

Someone said Mac's aren't used for technical stuff, but I've been finding the opposite more and more, especially in comp-sci. OSX is Unix, which means that under the pretty graphics are all those super-powerful tools that Unix users have had for years, and that Linux users have as well. Macs are still good for graphics & music, but as long as you're not a hard-core gamer the Mac is fine. And again, you can dual boot with Windows (but why would you want to? ;))

[john_childs]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here...a Mac can run an actual copy of Vista or XP natively, without emulation like Wine or Cedega. This means it can run all Windows programs, not just "most". Furthermore, with the new version of Parallels on Mac, you can run both Mac and XP/Vista at the same time:
Virtualization is really really neat. But keep in mind that there are going to be limitations to what you can do in the virtualized environment. Integration of accelerated graphics so you can do fancy Aero effects or games or Google Earth or games or other such things is going to be limited and probably won't work at the level you expect them to work (unless you have low expectations to begin with).

So don't expect too much in terms of fancy graphics and eye candy inside a virtualized environment.

There may also be issues with how well the virtualized environment can make use of multiple cores on your CPU. The virtualized environment may be limited to only being able to use a single core on your physical CPU which would limit potential performance in your virtualized environment.

[evil-nick]

With Parallels now, you can actually dualboot AND use windows virtualized, with the same install. If you're in OSX, and need something in Windows that's not gaming etc, you use Parallels so you don't reboot. When you need full power, you reboot. Awesomeness! (You can do the same thing with VMware, linux, and Windows).

[johnfoss]

If you're in OSX, and need something in Windows that's not gaming etc, you use Parallels so you don't reboot. When you need full power, you reboot.If you mean rebooting Windows, that would mean installing it twice; once in a virtual machine file under Parallels, and a second time in a separate partition with Boot Camp. This would be two separate copies of Windows, each taking up a chunk of disk space as well.

I was just reading that the lower-end versions of Vista still aren't legal (as defined by the licensing agreement) to run virtualized. To run Windows Vista under Parallels, legally, you have to use the Premium or Ultimate editions. Ouch. Glad I stuck with Win XP.

I run Windows in a window, so I can switch back and forth easily. As JC mentioned, this sucks up system resources, so when the Windows VM is running, both OSs are slower than they would be separately. It's fine for most things, but if you're into gaming you would definitely want to bood directly into Windows.

One of the nicest things about running Windows under Parallels? It boots up really fast! Not sure if this is because it's skipping part of the normal boot process (the computer is already up and running) or if it's because it's a really "clean" installation of Windows. My purpose for using it is to test Web sites to make sure they look and function correctly in Windows. The Parallels solution works perfectly for that.

[mscalisi]

That is a cool feature! Do you know if VmWare Fusion also does that? I see a Mac in my future, but I'll spend at least as much time in Windows and possibly Linux.

This isn't really an argument of what hardware to get (although you generally pay a premium for Mac, but not always), it's what OS to run.

I say, why choose, run it all. If you have the budget for a Mac, and are intrigued by the OS, by all means. If you have less scratch, Vista is an OK OS also. (I just bought a dual-core laptop with a 17" monitor for $600, not going to happen in apple land).

With Parallels now, you can actually dualboot AND use windows virtualized, with the same install. If you're in OSX, and need something in Windows that's not gaming etc, you use Parallels so you don't reboot. When you need full power, you reboot. Awesomeness! (You can do the same thing with VMware, linux, and Windows).

[mornish]

I just looked up a copy of the dell M1330, with the upgrades thatid like if i got it, and it ended up like this.

SYSTEM COLOR Tuxedo Black edit
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7100 (2MB cache/1.8GHz/800Mhz FSB) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition edit
LCD AND CAMERA Slim and Light LED Display with VGA Webcam edit
MEMORY 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz edit
HARD DRIVE Speed: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) edit
OPTICAL DRIVE CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive) edit
VIDEO CARD 128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS edit
WIRELESS CARDS Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card edit
BLUETOOTH OPTIONS Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR) edit
BATTERY OPTIONS 56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell) edit
SOUND OPTIONS Integrated Sound Blaster Audigy HD Software Edition edit
FINGERPRINT SCANNER Biometric Fingerprint Reader ed

as $2,285

however, I really like Mac OS X, so I was wondering, how portable are the 15" macbook pros?

the equivalent 15" macbook pro would be about $2500 with an led screen ect...




also, the macbook pro has the NVDIA? graphics card and seems to be more powerful in general.



so pretty much, would it be worth spending $200 or so and a slighty bigger (but skinnier) laptop that runs Mac OS X, or $200 less on a smaller laptop that doesnt?



edit: if I upgraded the processor to 2.2 which is what the macbook pro has, it would be about the same price.


editedit: whats better, a 160 gb harddrive at 7200 rpms, or a 200 gb one at 4200?


also, do I want a glossy screen?




I also like the ideo of the macbook pro because even if its a bit more expensive, I want a laptop that wont go obsolete for at least 3 years.

[mscalisi]

I wouldn't focus so much on the hardware. Choose the OS, THEN choose the hardware.

I just looked up a copy of the dell M1330, with the upgrades thatid like if i got it, and it ended up like this.

SYSTEM COLOR Tuxedo Black edit
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7100 (2MB cache/1.8GHz/800Mhz FSB) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition edit
LCD AND CAMERA Slim and Light LED Display with VGA Webcam edit
MEMORY 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz edit
HARD DRIVE Speed: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) edit
OPTICAL DRIVE CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive) edit
VIDEO CARD 128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS edit
WIRELESS CARDS Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card edit
BLUETOOTH OPTIONS Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR) edit
BATTERY OPTIONS 56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell) edit
SOUND OPTIONS Integrated Sound Blaster Audigy HD Software Edition edit
FINGERPRINT SCANNER Biometric Fingerprint Reader ed

as $2,285

however, I really like Mac OS X, so I was wondering, how portable are the 15" macbook pros?

the equivalent 15" macbook pro would be about $2500 with an led screen ect...




also, the macbook pro has the NVDIA? graphics card and seems to be more powerful in general.



so pretty much, would it be worth spending $200 or so and a slighty bigger (but skinnier) laptop that runs Mac OS X, or $200 less on a smaller laptop that doesnt?

[johnfoss]

would it be worth spending $200 or so and a slighty bigger (but skinnier) laptop that runs Mac OS X, or $200 less on a smaller laptop that doesnt?Don't forget to add the price of anti-virus, anti-spyware and possibly other utility software that's necessary to run Windows "safely." And put a price on your time if that's a factor for you. For me, the time saved in maintenance tasks alone more than makes up for any price difference between a Mac and Windows system. Much more.

editedit: whats better, a 160 gb harddrive at 7200 rpms, or a 200 gb one at 4200?Should I buy a Trials or a MUni? A 7200 rpm HD will be noticeably faster (you'd be able to tell the difference). The 200 GB will be bigger. Both are plenty big for a laptop. I'd get the faster drive and upgrade to external drives as necessary. I have three.

also, do I want a glossy screen?From what I read, the glossy screens are brighter, but more susceptible to glare. So it mostly depends on where you use it. Also a recent article in Consumer Reports mentioned that the Apple laptops have superior anti-glare coating, which cuts down on this problem somewhat for the Macs.

[mscalisi]

How much does freeware cost?

Don't forget to add the price of anti-virus, anti-spyware and possibly other utility software that's necessary to run Windows "safely." And put a price on your time if that's a factor for you. For me, the time saved in maintenance tasks alone more than makes up for any price difference between a Mac and Windows system. Much more.

[mscalisi]

Get the faster drive. 4200rpm is too slow. Typical laptop drives are 5400rpm, get one at least that fast. Get a 7200rpm drive if the budget allows.

I'm not a fan of glossy screens because of the glare, but they are popular.

It doesn't matter what you buy. It WILL be obsolete in three years. In fact, 3/4 years is a typical lifecycle for computers in a business environment.


edit: if I upgraded the processor to 2.2 which is what the macbook pro has, it would be about the same price.

editedit: whats better, a 160 gb harddrive at 7200 rpms, or a 200 gb one at 4200?

also, do I want a glossy screen?

I also like the ideo of the macbook pro because even if its a bit more expensive, I want a laptop that wont go obsolete for at least 3 years.

[johnfoss]

How much does freeware cost?A lot less than the "good" stuff. :)

In other words, the best products on the market for those tasks are not the free ones, though some of the free ones are pretty darn good for the price!

[brendan]

damn i'm against a herd of mac lovers here...

ok my statement macs are underpowered was wrong. Pound for pound or dollar for dollar they are. (that makes you all happier?). And macs run the same cpu as PC's because they ARE pc's. However graphics wise macs (especially their laptops) have rubbish graphics cards. ALso the dell specs you gave show a 512mb dedicated gfx card (having 512mb of dedicated memory is totally pointless to a GPU that is dedicated - anything above 64mb is pretty much overkill) Also worth of note is that its taking 512mb out of ur 2gb of memory.

and nicked does mean stolen in uk english sorry not broken. Although as for reliability laptops are bad in general. Although i do think Fudjitsu siemens have the edge.

Also you can run mac OS X / Linux and windows at the same time with vmware and using the new virtualisation features there is a linux KDE program that does it but i forgot the name. (i still havent tried it lack of a supporting CPU)

Also a 7200rpm drive is recommended and dont even get a 4200rpm one they are like snails.

Windows has alot of freeware available such as AVG etc...Antivir is notable too. so money on antivirus safety can be forgoten.

And with a PC you can also boot windows if you are running linux. But the fact is changing OS is annoying and everyone knows it. Rebooting is a pain in the backside.

glossy screens look real nice but are annoying for general work - i hate them. However for viewing dvds and looking snazzy they are great.

In the end
I wouldn't focus so much on the hardware. Choose the OS, THEN choose the hardware.

totally true. If you want mac OS get a mac. Easy. But i think there is no use for mac since there is linux. (i'm gonna get hit so bad by all these mac lovers but they know its true :P)

[_Ground_Zero_]

...OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition
...VIDEO CARD 128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS...

if ur looking for gaming, and DX10 graphics from vista, i dont think the 8400 supports vista, u should go a little higher (NVIDIA 8600) so u can get the full graphics out of vista (If u R going with the dell) and be able to run DX10

[brendan]

the 8400 will support dx10 and vista. However its not really powerfull enough to do any proper DX10 gaming. However its immesnily better than an integrated gfx card and will enable all effects in vista (if u really want them :P)

and also it wont nick your system memory since its got its own 128mb of memory (you dont need any more on a card that powerfull its stupid you see these 7300 with 512mb of DDR memory its stupid)

[onelesscar]

Pound for pound or dollar for dollar they are. (that makes you all happier?).
Well, still not entirely true :p . For the same system config and specs (same screen size, etc) a mac will be lighter and smaller (the MBP 17" has less volume than the Dell 15.4").

However graphics wise macs (especially their laptops) have rubbish graphics cards.
The Macbook Pros 15" and 17" come optionally with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT 256MB RAM. Certainly not the best, but not rubbish.

[brendan]

Not entirily - but pretty much :P (sorry have to reword my statement again)

its still a joke of a card :P lets be honest your not gonna be running any new games on that. And thats the BEST card they offer - for a hefty price permium.

plus your saying that comparing them to dell, but you will be able to find a windows PC that will be smaller than a macbook pro. Plus i'd like to see the price of a macbook pro with that 8600M GT :P

[mscalisi]

Between video cards, if you're not a hard core gamer, you're not even likely to notice the difference. If you're a hard-core gamer, you're not looking at a Mac anyways, and especially not a laptop.

Not entirily - but pretty much :P (sorry have to reword my statement again)

its still a joke of a card :P lets be honest your not gonna be running any new games on that. And thats the BEST card they offer - for a hefty price permium.

plus your saying that comparing them to dell, but you will be able to find a windows PC that will be smaller than a macbook pro. Plus i'd like to see the price of a macbook pro with that 8600M GT :P

[brendan]

Between video cards, if you're not a hard core gamer, you're not even likely to notice the difference. If you're a hard-core gamer, you're not looking at a Mac anyways, and especially not a laptop.

i'd disagree even a non hardcore gamer can notice wether or not is computer is letting him see the slideshow of a recent game or playing the game. :P

but yeah if ur not interested in games then it doesnt matter in slightest - unless you want to run vista - which well why would you want to do that? although to run Compiz/beryl a nice video card is usefull

[mornish]

I went to an apple store today, and I think im getting a macbook pro.

id get the 7200 rpm 160 gb drive.

mmmm

[evil-nick]

If you mean rebooting Windows, that would mean installing it twice; once in a virtual machine file under Parallels, and a second time in a separate partition with Boot Camp. This would be two separate copies of Windows, each taking up a chunk of disk space as well.


Actually, the newest version of Parallels does that with one install. If you just need to access one or two programs (say, you have to run IE to access your schools webmail), you fire it up in Parallels, running the OS off it's separate partition. If you need all the power of the machine, like for a math/cad/game application, you reboot into XP entirely.

As for antivirus & antispyware, AVG is decent (what I use), and there are also programs from Avast! and others that are free for non-commercial use. As long as he doesn't go to "naughty" sites, he should be good. If he chooses to, he can use OSX, and be safer than he would be in XP with the most expensive anti-stuff running. (And yes, I know that this may change int he future if OSX gains more market share ;))

I think VMware Fusion may run apps without XP installed, but I'm not sure. I've only got 512M of RAM in my Macbook, so I'm not using virtualization, yet.

[johnfoss]

the newest version of Parallels does that with one install. If you just need to access one or two programs (say, you have to run IE to access your schools webmail), you fire it up in Parallels, running the OS off it's separate partition. If you need all the power of the machine, like for a math/cad/game application, you reboot into XP entirely.Really! I'll have to look into that, and see if I qualify for the necessary Parallels updates. That would be awesome.

[mornish]

also, does anyone want to buy a copy of iwork '08?

I have 3 available:)

[john_childs]

I went to an apple store today, and I think im getting a macbook pro.

id get the 7200 rpm 160 gb drive.

mmmm
What is the reason for needing such a high powered and expensive laptop?

I'm curious what you plan to do with it that needs such specs.

[maestro8]

What is the reason for needing such a high powered and expensive laptop?
John, you're a red-blooded Amurican... you should know about our consumer culture already.

One's social status is determined entirely by the goods which they consume. This is what the media is teaching us... have you not been learning?

Turn the volume up on your 60" Plasma HDTV, perhaps?

[mornish]

What is the reason for needing such a high powered and expensive laptop?

I'm curious what you plan to do with it that needs such specs.

some gaming, some grphic design, some architecture/ drafting stuff, school work.

I might do some 3D animation and some web design too maybe.

[john_childs]

The gaming is the only thing that is going to stress a fancy GPU. The gaming and the 3D rendering is the only thing that's going to stress the CPU. If you do video encoding that will also peg the CPU.

It looks to me like you're looking at $1000 to $1500 more laptop than you really need. You'd be better off buying a lower end laptop and getting an XBox 360 or Wii for your gaming fix.

I have a midrange desktop (Athlon 64 X2 4200, 2 GB RAM, Nvidia 7600GT) that is more power than I need. I don't game and I haven't been doing 3D rendering, but I'm also not a lightweight computer user. I rarely peg the CPU. The GPU gets used for eye candy and driving a dual monitor setup. The only upgrade I'm thinking about is another GB of RAM cause I'm playing with virtualization more and virtualization eats RAM.

If I was looking at a laptop I'd splurge on the RAM and a docking station (the docking station would have a larger monitor and keyboard for home use) and skimp on the high end laptop specs. Then get an XBox 360 if I wanted gaming.

[mornish]

The gaming is the only thing that is going to stress a fancy GPU. The gaming and the 3D rendering is the only thing that's going to stress the CPU. If you do video encoding that will also peg the CPU.

It looks to me like you're looking at $1000 to $1500 more laptop than you really need. You'd be better off buying a lower end laptop and getting an XBox 360 or Wii for your gaming fix.

I have a midrange desktop (Athlon 64 X2 4200, 2 GB RAM, Nvidia 7600GT) that is more power than I need. I don't game and I haven't been doing 3D rendering, but I'm also not a lightweight computer user. I rarely peg the CPU. The GPU gets used for eye candy and driving a dual monitor setup. The only upgrade I'm thinking about is another GB of RAM cause I'm playing with virtualization more and virtualization eats RAM.

If I was looking at a laptop I'd splurge on the RAM and a docking station (the docking station would have a larger monitor and keyboard for home use) and skimp on the high end laptop specs. Then get an XBox 360 if I wanted gaming.


I already have an XBOX (first edition, not 360), which I don't often use except if I have firends over. I was actually looking at getting an XBOX 360, but it would end up being about $700+ especially with games.


also, one of the reasons I want to get a nice laptop is so that it wont go obsolete for a while.


I want to be able to use this thing for at least 4 years before getting a new one, instead of upgrading a less good one.



edit - I also enjoy comp games more that xbox.

Id also like to be able to run WoW if my parents agree to unsuspend my account (long story but it was my brother's fault :()

[brendan]

I want to be able to use this thing for at least 4 years before getting a new one, instead of upgrading a less good one.


see thats where people go wrong. Your better off getting one half the price and getting a new one 2yrs later. You 'll get a better laptop next time and it'll be cheaper.

Thing is proccesing power has been said to double every 2yrs. This has been showed to be reasonably true especially with dual/quad core processing lately. It wont stop there thats for sure :P

Plus think of this. In 2yrs time your 160GB hard drive will be tiny. A normal game nowadays is on a dvd takes about 4GB of hdd space. Biggest games out there allready take 8-10GB. You cna bet that in 2yrs with blueray and hd-dvd we will be seeing 20-25GB games. How many games you gonna fit on your hard drive then?

Other thing to consider is that a laptop is extremely likely to fail within 3 yrs. Hell even desktop pc's are likely to bust in 3yrs. Lets be honest electronics is cheap and is specced for 2yrs use. And laptops get very hot and just arent good for the survival of electronics.

And i agree with john childs you probably dont need something that powerfull. Hell i'm on an XP 2500+ M @ 2.2ghz with 1GB of ram and a 6800GT@Ultra. I play a few games and recent games work on medium spec on my machine fine. I want to upgrade soonish once barcelona gets released because i want to try virtualisation and my pc has been dying on me in my latest attempts. However its a fine little machine. THe thing i would recommend if you want to spend money is get a nice screen. You can get 1900x1200 laptop screens now thats worth it. You'll look at the screen everyday - most days you wont even use the second core on your pc... i personally have a 22" screen on my pc and love it.

[johnfoss]

The gaming and the 3D rendering is the only thing that's going to stress the CPU. If you do video encoding that will also peg the CPU.Batch processing of photos will also give the CPU a good workout. Running various Photoshop processes (assuming you have photoshop or similar) is reason enough for a faster CPU and system.

Plus think of this. In 2yrs time your 160GB hard drive will be tiny.True. If anything is growing fast in the world of computers these days it's hard drives. Rather than spend top dollar on the biggest (or fastest) available now, just keep it modest and wait. By the time you start feeling full there will be much larger ones available for less than the first one. You can replace the internal HD, or just use an external one for home. I recently saw a 1TB external drive for under $400. The cheapest ones are all USB 2.0, but I prefer Firewire 800 if I can find it. A MacBook will have the plug for that.

Other thing to consider is that a laptop is extremely likely to fail within 3 yrs. Hell even desktop pc's are likely to bust in 3yrs.Laptops definitely are exposed to more abuse that can kill them. That said, my 2003 Mac Powerbook is almost four years old, works just fine and is still a long way from being outdated. I used to bring it to work every day, so it didn't just sit on a desk. But Consumer Reports recommends buying the warranty or service plan for laptops, because they have more potential for problems.

But Brendan, what are you doing to your desktop machine, riding Trials with it? They generally hold up much longer, unless you abuse them by overclocking, never cleaning out the dust, or otherwise not taking good care of them.

The important thing to remember is that a hard drive can die without warning, and your data should be backed up regularly!

[evil-nick]

Upgrading the HD on the Macbook is super easy (about 5min work), I went from the 60G to the 160G. I'm not sure about the new Macbooks, but I think the firewire is still only firewire 400 :( Still a bit better than USB 2.0, but not great.

[onelesscar]

Batch processing of photos will also give the CPU a good workout. Running various Photoshop processes (assuming you have photoshop or similar) is reason enough for a faster CPU and system.
Yeah, I use Mathematica for class a lot, and rendering a big graph can peg the CPU for upwards of 15 mins. (2GHz, single core)

[mornish]

Yeah, I use Mathematica for class a lot, and rendering a big graph can peg the CPU for upwards of 15 mins. (2GHz, single core)

mathematica?


also, Im planning on taking very good care of this machine.

I'm also going to get a neoprene incase (www.goincase.com) for it.

also, does anyone know if macs have an equivalent of MS Paint?

What hard drive do you guys recommend me get?



also, my bro has about 1.5 terrabites of files and crap, but im not planning on having anywhere near that many files :)

[onelesscar]

mathematica?


also, Im planning on taking very good care of this machine.

I'm also going to get a neoprene incase (www.goincase.com) for it.

also, does anyone know if macs have an equivalent of MS Paint?

What hard drive do you guys recommend me get?



also, my bro has about 1.5 terrabites of files and crap, but im not planning on having anywhere near that many files :)
Mathematica is a mathematics application. It does anything math related that ever existed...and makes cool looking graphs :p

Macs do not have an equivalent of MS Paint, as that would render them pieces of crap. Seriously, why do you want MS Paint?? It's an awful program...and can't do anything. Get a freeware editor like GIMP.

As for hard drive...I would definitely get a lower capacity higher speed. The hard drive is the bottleneck on all the systems I've used. I love my 7200 RPM. Listen to John Foss. If you need more capacity, get an external in addition.

[johnfoss]

Correction: There is no Firewire 800 on the MacBook, only the MacBook Pro.

Mornish, what onelesscar said about MS Paint. There is no reason to want that program. It was nice to have a "free" bitmap editor back in the days of Windows 3.1, but it's extremely primitive. I doubt there's any freeware you can download that's as limited as Paint.

[mornish]

Correction: There is no Firewire 800 on the MacBook, only the MacBook Pro.

Mornish, what onelesscar said about MS Paint. There is no reason to want that program. It was nice to have a "free" bitmap editor back in the days of Windows 3.1, but it's extremely primitive. I doubt there's any freeware you can download that's as limited as Paint.

okay.

Im going to get photoshop, but I have absolutely no clue how to use it.


do you guys think i should spend an extra $100 on 160 gb hard drive that goes 1800 rpms faster?

[onelesscar]

Im going to get photoshop, but I have absolutely no clue how to use it.
Well, don't get something that complicated to replace Paint :rolleyes: (even though I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be paying for it ;) ) Download a simple freeware program.

do you guys think i should spend an extra $100 on 160 gb hard drive that goes 1800 rpms faster?
I would. Or rather, will, when I get my new laptop soon.

[john_childs]

Batch processing of photos will also give the CPU a good workout. Running various Photoshop processes (assuming you have photoshop or similar) is reason enough for a faster CPU and system.

True, but the nature of batch processes and modern multi-processing operating systems is that you can run the batch processes in the background at a low process priority and can continue to work on foreground applications without too much interference.

The current MacBooks and MacBook Pros are all using a Core 2 Duo processor. Whether it's a 1.8 GHz or 2.4 GHz isn't going to make that much difference (though the faster ones do have a higher bus speed as well). Even a slow Core 2 Duo is fast.

Unless you are doing something that is able to peg the CPU while working with the application in interactive mode then there isn't a real need for a faster CPU (unless you just want to help Intel's bottom line).

I'd rather have a faster HD in a laptop than a step up in CPU speed.

But I'm also a person who is able to continue using a computer a couple years longer than what most power users do before feeling the need to get a new faster system.

[jamessd]

and makes cool looking graphs :p
Seriously, why do you want MS Paint??


Office word makes awesome looking graphs too!!
Because it's very simple to use and can perform basic editing and cropping tasks quickly without you having to search for functions

[evil-nick]

Get the largest, slowest drive you can ;) Larger drives with a lower spindle speed are often as fast or faster than a smaller drive with a higher spindle speed, since all the data is crammed closer together on the platters anyway the mechanisms don't have to move as far as fast to read the data.

Slower drives also use less power, generate less heat, and are more reliable. And even if you were to be doing video recording/editing, you're going to have more of a RAM bottleneck than a hard drive bottleneck.

The faster drive will be of use either when copying lots of files, and maybe booting up. I rarely do either, since the Macbook does so well simple sleeping when I shut the lid (I've gone 3 weeks with no reboots, just closing the lid, it's faster than booting or shutting down :D)

Check the price on the drives, if it's about the same cost for the upgrade as buying the drive separately, do that. If it's cheaper to buy separate, do that. You'll need a laptop SATA drive, they're easily found online.

(Semi) related: If you think you'll be doing presentations, make sure you get Keynote, it's amazing compared to Office, and loads better than OpenOffice's Presentation software. The remote works with it, it's simple to use, imports PowerPoint, and is all around kick-ass. If I needed to do presentations still I'd buy it (I used the 30-day trial, I didn't activate it until 2 weeks before the end of the school year :D)

[mornish]

Get the largest, slowest drive you can ;) Larger drives with a lower spindle speed are often as fast or faster than a smaller drive with a higher spindle speed, since all the data is crammed closer together on the platters anyway the mechanisms don't have to move as far as fast to read the data.

Slower drives also use less power, generate less heat, and are more reliable. And even if you were to be doing video recording/editing, you're going to have more of a RAM bottleneck than a hard drive bottleneck.

The faster drive will be of use either when copying lots of files, and maybe booting up. I rarely do either, since the Macbook does so well simple sleeping when I shut the lid (I've gone 3 weeks with no reboots, just closing the lid, it's faster than booting or shutting down :D)

Check the price on the drives, if it's about the same cost for the upgrade as buying the drive separately, do that. If it's cheaper to buy separate, do that. You'll need a laptop SATA drive, they're easily found online.

(Semi) related: If you think you'll be doing presentations, make sure you get Keynote, it's amazing compared to Office, and loads better than OpenOffice's Presentation software. The remote works with it, it's simple to use, imports PowerPoint, and is all around kick-ass. If I needed to do presentations still I'd buy it (I used the 30-day trial, I didn't activate it until 2 weeks before the end of the school year :D)


I getting the whole iwork set.



edit: would this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152052) work in a macbook pro once it comes out? if it does, Ill probably just upgrade to that one.

Ill start looking for the sata drives too.

[mornish]

Im getting the whole iwork set.



edit: would this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152052) work in a macbook pro once it comes out? if it does, Ill probably just upgrade to that one.

Ill start looking for the sata drives too.


would it work?


sorry, im inpatient.


its a 500 gb 7200 rpm internal hard drive for $120

[onelesscar]

No, it wouldn't. That hard drive is for a desktop, that's why it's so cheap. The largest/fastest laptop hard drive I'm aware of 200GB/7200RPM.

[mornish]

No, it wouldn't. That hard drive is for a desktop, that's why it's so cheap. The largest/fastest laptop hard drive I'm aware of 200GB/7200RPM.


oh bummer :(

could you send me a link to that one?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145160

is it that?

[onelesscar]

Yup, that's it.

[mornish]

Yup, that's it.

will it work with mac OS X?

all the reviews are from people running vista.

[onelesscar]

Yes...hard drives are OS non-specific. Any hard drive will work with any OS.

[mornish]

Yes...hard drives are OS non-specific. Any hard drive will work with any OS.

oh okay, great!

[johnfoss]

Make sure the plugs match up. I'd love to put one of those in my aging laptop, but it's pre-SATA. I don't really need it, as the laptop is now a secondary computer, but it would be nice.

Should you buy it? My response would be not now. You can't buy the MacBook without a HD already in it, so use that one until you start getting crowded. *Then's* the time to see what's on the market.

As for Photoshop, what do you intend to do with it? For most people Photoshop Elements is all you'll need, and much, much easier to use. And you can own a legal copy for under $100 US.

[onelesscar]

As for Photoshop, what do you intend to do with it? For most people Photoshop Elements is all you'll need, and much, much easier to use.
My guess is he intends to do with it whatever he was going to do with Paint.

And you can own a legal copy for under $100 US.
Ah, yes. But you can own an illegal copy for free :rolleyes:

[evil-nick]

SATA drives are all standard, they just slip right in, you don't even have to match up the plugs. I'd actually recommend getting the bigger drive now 'cause it's easier than having to transfer the system to the new drive later, especially once it gets filled (it took something like 4 hours to transfer my 60G drive to the 160G).

[pkittle]

the Macbook does so well simple sleeping when I shut the lid (I've gone 3 weeks with no reboots, just closing the lid, it's faster than booting or shutting down)

My old Powerbook Ti has regularly gone for months without restarting; the only thing that ever makes me restart it is a software update requirement.

And a note on Apple longevity: I have six macs running in my house at the moment (4 desktops, two laptops) ranging in age from 4 months to nine years. They all still work great, and run current software. I'm not a gamer (and my kids game on their Sony systems), so don't care about that aspect, but all my computers do what we want them to do, and without fuss. The fact that the Macbook boots XP is nice since I do lots of tech presentations for people who only use Windows. I haven't done much dabbling in Linux, but my son has a kickass Yellow Dog install that's seriously got thinking about trying out a new OS.

[mscalisi]

My exact thoughts.

Of course, that being said, it's pretty natural to want the best computer possible. Still though, you have to remember that today's top of the line computer is tomorrow's bargain basement computer.

see thats where people go wrong. Your better off getting one half the price and getting a new one 2yrs later. You 'll get a better laptop next time and it'll be cheaper.

.

[mscalisi]

Regarding hard drive size; Unless you need to have all your data on your laptop at all times, you can get a big external drive for pretty cheap, and only keep your critical data on your laptop drive.

I also agree with waiting to upgrade the drive until you need to. Your options will be better then (faster/higher capacity/lower cost). Of course you'll need to transfer all your data somehow. (backup to external drive, install new drive, reload O/S, restore data)

[maestro8]

Miles, you can save some $$$ and still get great functionality out of Paint Shop Pro (http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1155872554948)... it's geared for the consumer instead of the photography professional, and it includes tutorials to help you along.

If you want to go uber-cheap (i.e. free) try GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/). I'll admit the user interface isn't the most intuitive thing ever developed, but it's quite powerful.

Im going to get photoshop, but I have absolutely no clue how to use it.
Gotta love the modern-day consumer... shells out major $$$ for some mega-featured piece of high technology, then only uses 5% of those features. Hey, it keeps us engineers employed!

Ah, yes. But you can own an illegal copy for free
Stealing something does not mean you own it. Unless you pay for a license, it's just stolen property.

[evil-nick]

Get GimpShop, it's Gimp but with the menus moved around so that they're in the same places Photoshop has them. 90% of the functionality for 100% less than PhotoShop (IE, Free as in "Beer"). Plus if you ever decide to move to Winders or Linux you can use Gimp there too. :)

[mornish]

Get GimpShop, it's Gimp but with the menus moved around so that they're in the same places Photoshop has them. 90% of the functionality for 100% less than PhotoShop (IE, Free as in "Beer"). Plus if you ever decide to move to Winders or Linux you can use Gimp there too. :)

eh, my brothers getting me photoshop for free.

the little pirate

[maestro8]

eh, my brothers getting me photoshop for free.
the little pirate
Miles, did you turn your brain off this morning? Why would you make a self-incriminating post on a public web site? Especially when it's this (http://www.ramonajournal.com/news/2007/0101/Ramona_Community/007.html) easy (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/antipiracy/reportform.html) to be reported?

Do your parents know what you and your brother are up to with your computers? Do they condone your online activities?

Seriously, dude... it's as if you're following in following in (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41522) Tyler's footsteps (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41393)...