The state of the forums today

[Eddbmxdude]

Hey guys,

For a while now the forums have been going more and more downhill. When I first signed up, I used to read all of the sections, Rec.sport.unicycling, Just Conversation, the trading post and everything. As time wore on, I started getting fed up with JC, there was just so much crap being posted, fair enough because it is a general conversation forum, so I stopped even clicking onto JC altogether.

Soon though, that crap from JC started spilling into Rec.Sport.Unicycling. People started posting mind-numbingly annoying things like “+1” as replies. People would fill up threads with general banter, not technical talk or advice, which is what RSU is for!
Then the treads about sponsorship started. Little kids asking how to get sponsored! Come on guys, is the joy of riding a unicycle really not good enough? It seems now that a lot of the younger people on the forums are only riding so they can get free stuff off of various companies!

I really don’t like the way the forums are heading, all these little ‘Groupies’ clogging up the forums, asking how to get sponsored and asking who is sponsored, DOES IT REALLY MATTER? Do you have fun riding your unicycle? That is all that counts!
All the ‘Lets bum Shaun J’ threads get on my nerves too! Yeah he’s good, but everyone knows it. Save the praise for less well known people, the new guy who has just learnt to freemount, that in my eyes is a far greater achievement than a quadruple backflip with 1080 unispin!

Im sorry if I have upset anyone, but this is a subject that REALLY gets on my nerves. I have tried to keep my language down, I even posted this in crappy JC to keep RSU on topic. I guess im just annoyed because the place where I used to get loads of friendly, helpful advice from is turning into just another internet forum.

Edd :(

[dan de man]

i just think we need 2 or so stickys to hous an FAQ


though yes i do agree with you on the state of our forums

[Triball]

Hey guys,

For a while now the forums have been going more and more downhill. When I first signed up, I used to read all of the sections, Rec.sport.unicycling, Just Conversation, the trading post and everything. As time wore on, I started getting fed up with JC, there was just so much crap being posted, fair enough because it is a general conversation forum, so I stopped even clicking onto JC altogether.

Soon though, that crap from JC started spilling into Rec.Sport.Unicycling. People started posting mind-numbingly annoying things like “+1” as replies. People would fill up threads with general banter, not technical talk or advice, which is what RSU is for!
Then the treads about sponsorship started. Little kids asking how to get sponsored! Come on guys, is the joy of riding a unicycle really not good enough? It seems now that a lot of the younger people on the forums are only riding so they can get free stuff off of various companies!

I really don’t like the way the forums are heading, all these little ‘Groupies’ clogging up the forums, asking how to get sponsored and asking who is sponsored, DOES IT REALLY MATTER? Do you have fun riding your unicycle? That is all that counts!
All the ‘Lets bum Shaun J’ threads get on my nerves too! Yeah he’s good, but everyone knows it. Save the praise for less well known people, the new guy who has just learnt to freemount, that in my eyes is a far greater achievement than a quadruple backflip with 1080 unispin!

Im sorry if I have upset anyone, but this is a subject that REALLY gets on my nerves. I have tried to keep my language down, I even posted this in crappy JC to keep RSU on topic. I guess im just annoyed because the place where I used to get loads of friendly, helpful advice from is turning into just another internet forum.

Edd :(


+1

[ivan]

The state of the forums today
Sounds like a BBC report.

I agree with you, though. Lots of unnecessary posts, and the useful information is decreasing.

I'm not sure how to deal with it, though. Stickies? Rating system? Moderators? Just complaining about it won't solve much.

[MrBoogiejuice]

I see where you're coming from Edd but I think it's an inevitable effect of the growing popularity of unicycling and not really something to get wound up about. More people of every type are now unicycling than ever before and that's bound to include people whose posts you find annoying. It ain't an inherantly bad thing... If anything it's good. There are more unicyclists regardless of who they are or what they're posting behaviour's like. as gild would say it's more of us and less of them.

I love this forum because there's so little moderation. I post on another forum full of supposed hippy's and they have things called infractions they hand out to people who misbehave on the forum. I'd hate it if more moderation was used on here. It's absolutely great the way Gilby leaves the people who post on here to give a nudge in the right direction to people misbehaving instead of wading in and telling people off.

At the end of the day no one's forcing you to click on anything on here and there are still loads of interesting threads to occupy you... Just a few more silly ones too.

[GILD]

Be the change that you want to see in the world.
Mohandas Gandhi

[JJuggle]

Be the change that you want to see in the world.
Mohandas Gandhi
On that note, here's my favorite exchange from the excellent movie, Contact:

David Drumlin: I know you must think this is all very unfair. Maybe that's an understatement. What you don't know is I agree. I wish the world was a place where fair was the bottom line, where the kind of idealism you showed at the hearing was rewarded, not taken advantage of. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.
Ellie Arroway: Funny, I've always believed that the world is what we make of it.

[dunawan]

People started posting mind-numbingly annoying things like “+1” as replies.

+1

:p Just kidding.

[GILD]

Dunawan, I don't mean to pick on you but you make it unavoidable.
(And I know this is JC, before you start bleating.)
That's a brilliant example of what we're talking about here.
It's a 'soft' joke to say the least, and it's already been made by the delegation from Slovenia.

Add, discuss, or don't post.

(And with 'Add' I don't mean +1 or the Ritalin-cured situation either, k?)

[forrestunifreak]

Soon though, that crap from JC started spilling into Rec.Sport.Unicycling. People started posting mind-numbingly annoying things like “+1” as replies. People would fill up threads with general banter, not technical talk or advice, which is what RSU is for!


Yes, RSU should have less talk and more riding... talk.

But is someone saying something like "+1" really that bad? Isn't it so simply just to ignore the breif +1 post and continue on? It's not that big a deal, although it is silly sometimes.




I agree with you on the RSU bit, though. But newbies don't really bother me...

[thejdw]

+1, I agree with all but the anti- +1 part. its just shorter than I agree


oh yeah: :)

[monkeyman]

Save the praise for less well known people, the new guy who has just learnt to freemount, that in my eyes is a far greater achievement than a quadruple backflip with 1080 unispin!

I'm surprised no one has commented on this yet. Very well said, Ed.


+1, I agree with all but the anti- +1 part. its just shorter than I agree


oh yeah: :)
Jonathan, this is exactly what Ed's talking about. What was the purpose of saying +1? For that matter, what's the point of adding a post that just says "I agree"?
I'm not going to pretend that my posts have some divine, inspiring quality to them, but when I post something, I try to make it actually meaningful. If your post doesn't make someone go "Hmm", then it's probably not a good post.

[kington99]

I've found that blocking a few select people has largely increased my enjoyment of these forums. These aren't necessary people who's views differ from mine dramatically, or who are terribly offensive, just the lolers, the me tooers, people who's posts genreally have no content. It's a shame it has to be that way but there we go, this seems to be the most immeadiately efective way of dealing with the problem.

[Brian O.]

I've found that blocking a few select people has largely increased my enjoyment of these forums. These aren't necessary people who's views differ from mine dramatically, or who are terribly offensive, just the lolers, the me tooers, people who's posts genreally have no content. It's a shame it has to be that way but there we go, this seems to be the most immeadiately efective way of dealing with the problem.

I definitely agree here. For me it had gotten to the point where I was almost tempted to stop bothering with the forums altogether. Now, I'm not going to name any names (CKCrowe) but having added a few names to my ignore list has drastically improved the enjoyability of Rec. Only on the rare occasion do I ever venture over here to JC, it seems too far gone.

[dudewithasock]

Then the treads about sponsorship started. Little kids asking how to get sponsored! Come on guys, is the joy of riding a unicycle really not good enough? It seems now that a lot of the younger people on the forums are only riding so they can get free stuff off of various companies!

This is the part I agree with the most. Anyone who reads what I post on a regular basis knows that I'm a huge supporter of riding purely for enjoyment. This is why I'm not ashamed to admit that after almost 2 years of riding, I can't idle, go backwards, hop over a foot, or unispin. Getting sponsored may get you free stuff, which is good, but people shouldn't worry so much about it.

[Goats_On_Unicycles]

Yeah, that sponsorship thing is crazy. It seems like lots of beginning riders, immedeatley after learning how to ride make a thread asking how they can get "sponcered".

I havn't been tempted to block people yet (with the exception of howdidigetsogood) but I'll just skip threads and most posts made by some people.

[thejdw]

I'm surprised no one has commented on this yet. Very well said, Ed.



Jonathan, this is exactly what Ed's talking about. What was the purpose of saying +1? For that matter, what's the point of adding a post that just says "I agree"?
I'm not going to pretend that my posts have some divine, inspiring quality to them, but when I post something, I try to make it actually meaningful. If your post doesn't make someone go "Hmm", then it's probably not a good post.
true, but its does let the person know that you agree with them very quickly and easly.

[monkeyman]

true, but its does let the person know that you agree with them very quickly and easly.

If it's really that important to let the person know you agree with them, then PM them. That's what it's there for.

[JJtheunicycle]

I really dislike the overuse of emoticons, bad spelling, bad puncuation and stupid things people do like the guy who uses invisible text constantly, so I blocked him. I'm really liking being able to block people, and do it without hesitation.

[captainkrunk61]

What I think should be done is appoint moderators for each sub-forum. One for RSU, one for JC, etc. If a post comes up that is not fitting for the category of said forum, have the mod move it to the appropriate location. I have seen this done on some other forums I visit, and its seems to work quite well.

[cathwood]

Well I disagree. Considering the amount of younger unicyclists that have joined the forum recently, we're doing OK. It's still a lovely supportive and friendly forum.

New posters are usually socialized to the way the forum works by the rest of us.

Yes, there are a few annoying people who's posts I don't read. But, considering the vast age differences and some cultural differences in the forums, we're doing really well. I think so anyway.

[gkmac]

I think the biggest problem about this particular forum is the moderation. Or lack of it.

I frequent another forum which is very well moderated. They have a team of eighteen moderators spread around the globe; around all the timezones to be exact. At least one of them seems to be on each time I go in there for a browse.

And the moderators there actually do their jobs. For instance... if somebody posts something off-topic in one particular sub-forum, it gets moved to the right one. if somebody starts a new thread which is virtually the same as one started fairly recently, it gets merged onto the old one. if somebody goes off-topic in a thread, the off-topic remark and the replies to it get "split out" of the thread into a new one. if a thread erupts into a flamewar, warnings are posted. ...and if the flamewar continues, the thread gets locked. That means nobody can make further replies to that thread. Also users may be banned temporarily. if a forum user is frequently noticed to make off-topic or useless remarks, they get a finger pointed at them and a chance to behave. Non-compliance results in a ban. If spam is noticed or reported, it gets deleted.Of those moderator responsibilities listed above, Gilby only seems to do #7. Although I understand his reason of standing back and letting users look after themselves and "self moderate" the forum, that can only help so much. People who do silly things, such as post "+1" all the time or post in invisible text, also tend to be the same people who ignore advice on how to behave themselves and, without things like a temporary ban, are free to pollute the forums over and over again.

Warnings to those who flout the rules are only effective coming from someone who has the power to restrict their forum usage.

Ignore lists are not a solution, since silly posters are bound to get stamped on by people who get cross with them. The cause may be invisible, but the effects of people replying trying to put them on the straight and narrow still pollutes the forums.

We need a few more moderators (but not necessarily eighteen) and I can certainly name a few "wisdom" users (there's two that start with John) who have been in these forums and unicycling for a rather long time, who have a very mature attitude, who always make productive posts, and who would certainly get my vote to be given moderator status.

I guess the moderators most frequent jobs in here would be roles #1-#3 in the list above, keeping posts in the right sub-forum. Just those roles would improve these forums fabulously, keeping off-topic stuff in Just Conversation and keeping the threads' replies actually as described in the thread title. Plus I can envisage many threads like "A question" or "Something I've noticed" being renamed to something more meaningful, so people can actually see the context and decide whether to dive in and read.

I can understand why some people reject the idea of more moderation in this forum, especially with a relatively young audience posting here. But, much as I hate to say it, the only people who will have problems with more moderation are the troublemakers themselves.

[kristine]

I half agree with Ed. Crap should be in JC and stay in JC (it's a good thing he posted this is JC). That's why I rarely leave JC becuase I have no interest in (at this point in my life) discussing crank sizes, the hot new unicycle, a cool new trick someone learnt or wants to learn. I more so just use the fora as a place to talk to really nice people online. I did join to learn more about unicycling initially, but now only use it to chat, hence why I hide out in MR. The appropriate place for that, and I believe it's good it's there because it's a place for people to post meaningless posts rather than post them in threads with actual topics. So Ed, thank Item and the Mr'ers for making a nook within the fourms for the meaningless posts. :) (just kidding, but imagine if it didn't exist how muchextra garbage would be in the other threads) I do however half think ed needs a chill pill (I don't mean this meanly, just saying relax a little) there will always be people who annoy you in life every where you go. Ultimately though GILBY has the final say what's appropriate and where, and GILBY's a pretty cool guy and seems quite laid back himself.

[kristine]

I can understand why some people reject the idea of more moderation in this forum, especially with a relatively young audience posting here. But, much as I hate to say it, the only people who will have problems with more moderation are the troublemakers themselves.
Um excuse me, am I a trouble maker?

I'm not oposed to moderation. It is needed to an extent and is good to have as this is a family forum, we don't want the youngins exposed to inappropriate material, and spam selling things isn't needed. I think the moderation here is appropriate and does not need to be increased. Besides, we have so many opinionated people who will tell people causing trouble (so to speak) that it isn't appropriate so that they willl not do it again. In that sense our members help keep eachother inline.

[Mikefule]

Funnily enough, I think I raised this a few years ago, because the forums weren't as good then as they used to be before that.

It's a nostalgia thing. When you're new to a forum, everything is new, and you're just excited and want to participate. After a while, you tend to back off a bit and only post on certain subjects. Then you start to realise that everything you are reading has been said 1,000 times before. Then you start to be irritated by the little stuff that was there all the time.

The forum hasn't significantly changed. It has evolved or developed, and there are bits that are "better" and bits that are "worse", whatever those two words mean, but it is basically the same.

I participate in several forums, and this is far and away the nicest place to be out of all of them.

A forum is a social space, owned and created by every one of the participants. It is not just a notice board, or a free magazine, or a soap box, or a free advice column. It is a meeting place, a place to chat and to share time together.

But like all social spaces, the environment can be spoiled for some people by the inconsiderate behaviour of others. If you go to sit quietly on the beach and read, you may not appreciate the noisy kids playing beach football. Likewise, they may think you are in the way of their game. Some people will find background music, or the cricket on the radio, relaxing; others may find the noise intrusive.

The forum is a community, and like any community, we have to give and take.

That means the miserable old buggers like me having to tolerate the noisy young whippersnappers posting "LOL +1 yay!!!!! ROFLMAO dude is gay" for no obvious reason. I think they are bogus, but they think they are most excellent. That's the way it is.

It also means that the rowdier element sometimes needs to check its natural impulses. Of course, few if any of the rowdier element will have read this far down in this post - so I could say whatever I wanted about them.;)

A lot of people use forums as a way of trying out ideas about themselves. They try out new images, strike poses, and build an "on line persona". The forum is a sandbox for real life. It doesn't matter. No one gets hurt, although sometimes we choose to get irritated.

Posts about "Who else does street/trials/muni/Jesus/gaiety?" are just a way of people saying, "I want to have my ideas about the world and myself recognised and therefore "made valid".

Who cares who is the best unicyclist? Who cares what we call that special trick where you don't actually hurt yourself one time in seven? Who cares if Cokers are ugly, or Mikefule is straight or gay? It's just people talking, interracting, defining themselves, and hopefully growing up among friends.

I have friends in this forum, some of whom I've never met. This forum is a good palce to be. It would not be such a good place to be if it were regulated like some of the forums I've been in. It would not be a good place to be if it degenerated into a flamewar between trolls like some other forums I've seen.

We all enjoy unicycling. Lets enjoy the place where we can meet other unicyclists from all over the world, and many different cultures and age groups. There are unicyclists here from every corner of the globe - even as far as Wales, for goodness' sake. What a fantastic opportunity.

20 years ago, there were no internet forums. What a fantastic invention. Don't spoil it.

Think before you press the send button. Remember, a few friends and a thousand strangers may read it.

[CKCrowe]

+1, lol jk, never done that before....
we need a FAQ's as a totally new part of the forums, like how to get sponsored and stuff, and rec for tricks,or unicycles ppl who need advice on a trick, not to many ppl go to the tutorial section, because noone looks at it, well now a lot of ppl look at it in comparison to the other sections.

[thejdw]

If it's really that important to let the person know you agree with them, then PM them. That's what it's there for.
no PMs are for private things, sometimes you want to make it public that you agree with that person. IMO

[JJtheunicycle]

No, PMs are for private things, sometimes you want to make it public that you agree with that person. IMO
Then why not post about why you agree as well as a +1.

[thejdw]

I've been reading a few of the posts, I'll start with invisible writing. I can understand if this is used in a serious thread or similar, but can also be used in a joke way causing no harm, only humor.
I myself have rarely seen arguments or agression, so I would not say we have a particular problem with that.

And for all the people who are against minor text shortcuts; sometimes its nice to relax and not try to be 'propper all the time'. (I have english for that :rolleyes: )

Well I disagree. Considering the amount of younger unicyclists that have joined the forum recently, we're doing OK. It's still a lovely supportive and friendly forum.

New posters are usually socialized to the way the forum works by the rest of us.

Yes, there are a few annoying people who's posts I don't read. But, considering the vast age differences and some cultural differences in the forums, we're doing really well. I think so anyway.
I agree, its not like we have a real problem

[tomblackwood]

But is someone saying something like "+1" really that bad?
Yes it is. It is the forum equivalent of a dog marking a tree with his pee. It does nothing for the tree, and serves no purpose except to say "Hey, look at me! I was here too!".

[dunawan]

Dunawan, I don't mean to pick on you but you make it unavoidable.
(And I know this is JC, before you start bleating.)
That's a brilliant example of what we're talking about here.
It's a 'soft' joke to say the least, and it's already been made by the delegation from Slovenia.

Add, discuss, or don't post.

(And with 'Add' I don't mean +1 or the Ritalin-cured situation either, k?)

I knew someone was going to get on me about that. :p
Well, Consider that a last "+1" post for me. I didnt really understand how lame that reply was. RSU should be taken seriously and replys should be discussed with an explainable reason why you +1 [just dont write +1!]

[monkeyman]

no PMs are for private things, sometimes you want to make it public that you agree with that person. IMO

"Guys! Hey, guys!!! Look over here, at me!!! I agree with him!"

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1111/dog2020eageret7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[alpine_uni]

I too have come across this problem with the state of the Unicycling forum. When I was first learning about three years ago I found this fourm to be an amazing source of indisposeable information on unicycling. As the time passed the quality of the forum became useless to me. In my opinion, a forum should never become useless because there are always questions to be answered and topics to be discussed. This seems to not be the case any more. The Just Conversation forum has become littered with child talk and pointless threads, and the RSU forum is getting worse everytime I log on.

Because of these points I recently changed forums. My other hobby, RC Airplanes, has become my main hobby now that the Unicyclist Community has become so vandalized and useless to me. Every month or so I log on still to see if it has improved, but it keeps getting worse. When I first started in RC Airplanes I came upon RCGroups.com. Here I was able to find everything that I ever wanted to know about getting started. Now that I have been flying for awhile, I can still find information on developing my hobby into a craft and enjoying it like it was meant to be.

I encourage everyone here to take a look at rcgroups.com and think about how our unicyclist forum has gone to the dogs with in the last few years. Thanks to all who care about the state of our sport and the state of our fourm.

-alpine_uni

[dudewithasock]

Alpine_uni (and others):

I honestly think you're overreacting to an extreme. This forum has not "gone to the dogs". Most mature forum members (myself included) claim this forum to be of the highest quality. I have frequented many forums since I've been introduced to the internet, and this one is simply fantastic. You want to see a forum that's gone to the dogs? Check out 4chan.org. Look at any of the allakhazam.com forums. Lurk on the G4tv.com forums.

Over all, this forum is in good shape. Obviously there will be some childish antics and questionable behavior - this is the internet, after all. But it's not the majority. Also, since this is the internet, it is very easy to avoid most of the trash: block users, don't open threads by particular members, don't open threads with non-informative titles, avoid the JC forum.

My other hobby, RC Airplanes, has become my main hobby now that the Unicyclist Community has become so vandalized and useless to me.

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but you're making it sound like you've quit unicycling simply because of these forums. If that's the case, then I've never heard of something so absurd, and I really don't have anything to say to someone so easily swayed by anonymous rubbish on an online forum, and I hope I'm misinterpreting the above-quoted material.

[mcnuggets300]

we need a FAQ's as a totally new part of the forums, like how to get sponsored and stuff, and rec for tricks,or unicycles ppl who need advice on a trick

agreed, a FAQ is definitely needed, for those of us (myself included) who ask the repeating questions such as, "is this noise coming from my uni bad?"
also
stated somewhere on page 2 (i'm lazy, sue me) regarding enforcement of more rules. I have seen forums where this goes out of hand, where people hate the mods simply for doing their jobs, and if the mods give the rules some slack, then the bitching begins on how useless the mods are. It's a vicious circle... If we self moderate and leave the banning/locking and blocking to the mods, and take care of the simpler problems ourselves (like letting people know when they're being a tool) then it will be a happier place.

[Danni]

FAQs. I have never gone to a forum that has no stickies.
Stickies on various things that n00bs ask periodically should be implemented in the correct forum:

-The search feature
-general etiquette: no "+1"
-how to deal with spam (don't answer to it, just click the red triangle)
-a series of advice on tips and unicycle parts, types, etc.

A new unicyclists could soon know exactly how things are run without making the usual ten threads that we find so annoying.

[dan de man]

I completely agree with danni here

sorry if i have contributed to the degradation of the forum

[fluxusmaximus]

Perhaps the problem really lies with having too many members and too little forums. If you've got a burning question about how to do something, posting it in the tutorials section (which would ideally be the right forum to posst) would probably take you a lot more time to get a reply than if you post it in RSU. Which brings me to my point - What exactly is RSU? It says on the intro that "This is the place to ask any questions about unicycling." but if you need help with a certain trick, do you want it to go in New Article/Tutorial Request where you might get all of one reply/opinion?

Next. Years back, unicycling was unicycling. Today, you'd have new unicyclists declaring on the day they get their unicycles that they want to do flatland/street/muni riding. Maybe sub-headers to RSU would be helpful to reduce the clutter and make for easy skimming through of subject headers. Yes, search is useful but it's a pain if you're looking for a certain search term and you end up with a couple of threads like Most Replys where there're lots of pages.

Language: Not everyone's a native English speaker and I'm personally forgiving of bad grammar and spelling. This being the internet, a lot of people are possibly more familiar with geekspeak terms like 'l33t', 'lol', 'roflmao' than actual proper English. Might that be a reason why some people aren't contributing more than a mere 'roflmao. ure good..'?

That said, there's also a lot of others who can speak/type properly but are prone to typing lyk tis juz 4 da heck of it. Are newbies guilty of this? Perhaps they just aren't sure of the rules (another reason why there should be a sticky). I know of a few other forums where geekspeak is the norm and '+1' threads are everywhere. It irritates the hell out of me, sure but there are so many people who don't mind it and who chuckle a bit at the idiocy of it all. A forum I used to frequent tried to get rid of the +1 posts by having a 5 letter minimum for replies. Subsequent threads had '+1!!!!' plastered all over them.

Sorry to end this so abruptly. I'd be typing more but I'm just called to run some errand.

[Eddbmxdude]

Im glad a few people agree with me, and im also happy that a few have realised the uslessness of the "+1" posts.

I have read all the replies and have decided to take some peoples advice. I am going to have a go with the block button and see if that improves my enjoyment of the forums.

Edd

[Mikefule]

I'm not sure a +1 post is such a bad thing. In parliament, the honourable members say, "Hear hear!" and it means the same thing. It is an expression of support and agreement.

If Peter posts a long carefully worded and controversial point of view, surely Paul can say "I agree with everything Peter has said" without repeating the arguments in different words. The alternatives are either:

That Paul posts nothing, and Peter seems isolated in his controversial opinion, or
Paul wastes bandwidth with a post that is simply the same thing said in different words.


I think that some of the irritation comes from the fact that +1 is a comparatively recent thing, a little bit fashionable, and it is an example of what someone called "geek speak".

I find it no more irritating than "Just my 2 cents".

Things that shouldn't appear in a forum are:

Swearing and abuse.
Victimisation of vulnerable individuals.
Personal disputes and feuds.


Other than that, JC should be for general conversation which may or may not be about unicycling, and RSU should only be about unicycling-related matters.

Just think before you press the send button. The post may be read by a 10 year old girl, a 50 year old doctor, someone's child and someone else's grandmother. You wouldn't go into the street and shout abuse in the presence of these people, so don't do it in the forum.

But other than that, mutual toleration and co-operation are the keys to a thriving forum.

I have little or no interest in street tricks, jumps, hops, fancy mounts, or who is the better rider. I imagine may of you have no interest in whether or not I saw a heron today. There's room for all of us if we rub along together.

As the song says, "Let every man so pitch his song, to help his neighbour sing along."

It is an English song, which is why "neighbour" is spelled properly.;)

[mornish]

i think that it would be great if there was a necomers forum.

it could have threads that list all of the known available unicycles, their prices, and how good people think they are for whatever types of riding.

I think it would also be nice to be able to edit your posts no matter how long has gone by, in the trading post that could be really useful.

thats my opinion,

Miles

[thejdw]

"Guys! Hey, guys!!! Look over here, at me!!! I agree with him!"

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1111/dog2020eageret.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
this is a serious thread :rolleyes:

[thejdw]

I'm not sure a +1 post is such a bad thing. In parliament, the honourable members say, "Hear hear!" and it means the same thing. It is an expression of support and agreement.

If Peter posts a long carefully worded and controversial point of view, surely Paul can say "I agree with everything Peter has said" without repeating the arguments in different words. The alternatives are either:

That Paul posts nothing, and Peter seems isolated in his controversial opinion, or
Paul wastes bandwidth with a post that is simply the same thing said in different words.


I think that some of the irritation comes from the fact that +1 is a comparatively recent thing, a little bit fashionable, and it is an example of what someone called "geek speak".

I find it no more irritating than "Just my 2 cents".

Things that shouldn't appear in a forum are:

Swearing and abuse.
Victimisation of vulnerable individuals.
Personal disputes and feuds.


Other than that, JC should be for general conversation which may or may not be about unicycling, and RSU should only be about unicycling-related matters.

Just think before you press the send button. The post may be read by a 10 year old girl, a 50 year old doctor, someone's child and someone else's grandmother. You wouldn't go into the street and shout abuse in the presence of these people, so don't do it in the forum.

But other than that, mutual toleration and co-operation are the keys to a thriving forum.

I have little or no interest in street tricks, jumps, hops, fancy mounts, or who is the better rider. I imagine may of you have no interest in whether or not I saw a heron today. There's room for all of us if we rub along together.

As the song says, "Let every man so pitch his song, to help his neighbour sing along."

It is an English song, which is why "neighbour" is spelled properly.;)
I agree, those are the main things to worrie about

[thejdw]

BTW: edd, In your opinion; how do we solve the fourm problem?

[muzzle]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the WIKI yet. Wiki's can be a wonderful thing and can easily compliment and help keep the good information easily available and updated.
We have the Unicyclopedia, but it seems to be neglected. Whereas it could be used almost like a Q & A, or FAQ, and then just moderate a few of the threads which fill RSU, like dozens of "how do i do trick x" and instead keep an updated guide, with several peoples techniques and help on the wiki.

Wiki + slight moderation would go a long way :D

[Jack_C-B]

+1

You idiot!

That was my idea...

[Jack_C-B]

I've found that blocking a few select people has largely increased my enjoyment of these forums. These aren't necessary people who's views differ from mine dramatically, or who are terribly offensive, just the lolers, the me tooers, people who's posts genreally have no content. It's a shame it has to be that way but there we go, this seems to be the most immeadiately efective way of dealing with the problem.

So your saying that i can block myself and never hear from myself again?

[thejdw]

So your saying that i can block myself and never hear from myself again?
I tried to block myself

[Jack_C-B]

Well Then I Guess My Thesis Is Wrong...

[jamessd]

(posted by monkeyman)
''Jonathan, this is exactly what Ed's talking about. What was the purpose of saying +1? For that matter, what's the point of adding a post that just says "I agree"?
I'm not going to pretend that my posts have some divine, inspiring quality to them, but when I post something, I try to make it actually meaningful. If your post doesn't make someone go "Hmm", then it's probably not a good post.''


Well by saying ''I agree'', or ''+1'', this is just away of showing that there are people to back up a point. Offen this is very useful, if a point has been made (say about the quality of a unicycle part...) and people want to know what other people think. It saves someone else repeating something unnecessary and just waffling on the same point, whilst gives someone else an insight into the opinion of the unicyclist community.

Is this not right?

[Émile5]

I really agree on that Edd, I'm not reading anything in JC because it's all in RSU now.

EDIT: Except when I see and interesting topic on the "front page" of the forums.

[monkeyman]

(posted by monkeyman)


Well by saying ''I agree'', or ''+1'', this is just away of showing that there are people to back up a point. Offen this is very useful, if a point has been made (say about the quality of a unicycle part...) and people want to know what other people think. It saves someone else repeating something unnecessary and just waffling on the same point, whilst gives someone else an insight into the opinion of the unicyclist community.

Is this not right?

Ok yes, you are right here, as amount of support is probably one of the most important things to judge quality. But frivolously adding +1 to everything you agree with is, in my opinion, just annoying. As is trying to post in all caps.

[thejdw]

(posted by monkeyman)


Well by saying ''I agree'', or ''+1'', this is just away of showing that there are people to back up a point. Offen this is very useful, if a point has been made (say about the quality of a unicycle part...) and people want to know what other people think. It saves someone else repeating something unnecessary and just waffling on the same point, whilst gives someone else an insight into the opinion of the unicyclist community.

Is this not right?
finaly somebody who has read my post and understould/ agreed with it! :)

[Hazmat]

You idiot!

That was my idea...
Then just do +1 -2 +1 :D

[jamessd]

finaly somebody who has read my post and understould/ agreed with it! :)

Thats fine, I still don't see how not everyone can see this. To some extent, I think forums are for discussing things and gathering viewpoints, and this involves looking at the opinions&knowledge of different people, of different skill levels etc.

[feel the light]

1. + 1 is short and sweet. I never use it because I am aware of the clout wielded by a level one fat man. :o But it is an excellent way to briefly acknowledge the wisdom of a previous posters efforts. A series of +1's after a noteworthy post is a powerful statement, immediately understood by all.
2. No more moderation and rules !:eek: Nothing ruins the spirit of a forum as fast as the easily offended post deleting moderator. The moderators here are excellent.
3. The kids dreaming of sponsorship are funny. I say let's eg them on. Be sure to tell the next one who asks about sponsorship the story of the time Amanda picked you up in the corporate helicopter and brought you to Paris Hilton's pool party because you were the first to do a double fackie flaxial. Then everybody +1 it ! ;)

[harper]

Edd-

Thanks for starting a thought provoking thread. Surprising that it has degenerated into what is now typical forum fare. Also surprising is the inability of so many to grasp the fact that a terse, trite "I agree" post with no contributory discussion is so functionless. This behavior eminates from a society in which thought is avoided and even scorned. Gilby moderates in the way he wants which is in following with his morals and beliefs. It's his site and he can do what he wants. He is flexible, fair, and open to suggestions. He changes when extreme matters dictate that exceptions must be made. You are discussing trends in the fora content and I don't think that these changing trends yet dictate that Gilby change his style of moderation. He is relying on you, and like minded folks, to moderate for him. Pointing out the increase in senseless drivel by frustrated forum members helps him. Rational members scolding the immature behavior of disruptive members helps to keep these fora self moderating. Thanks for your effort on behalf of all of us who seek content.

[jamessd]

Edd-

Thanks for starting a thought provoking thread. Surprising that it has degenerated into what is now typical forum fare. Also surprising is the inability of so many to grasp the fact that a terse, trite "I agree" post with no contributory discussion is so functionless. This behavior eminates from a society in which thought is avoided and even scorned.


Well if we're honest, that is just hostile and unfair. This thread is about a debate, and reasoning with one-an-other to try and understand other peoples points of view - not to victimise one side and decide they are fully incorrect.

I can understand that some people may be annoyed that ''+1'' is a bit tepid, or effortless, however I also believe that it can be useful for people, as i've said already, to see where the majority is at - as in a true debate.

The only time when thought is avoided, is when people cannot see both sides of a debate. Again, it's not about fighting one side to death, it's about trying to persuade people by being polite, and perhaps using ''+1'' to show them that a majority may believe something else.

James

[monkeyman]

I can understand that some people may be annoyed that ''+1'' is a bit tepid, or effortless, however I also believe that it can be useful for people, as i've said already, to see where the majority is at - as in a true debate.
As I said, yes, you're right. In a thread about KH vs. Koxx unicycles, majority support is important. Most people would go with the better odds of something working out ok. However, in just about anything else, be it politics, religion, or favorite toothpaste, +1 is just a device people can use to steal others points without taking the time to make their own (or thinking, which was Greg's point).

Again, it's not about fighting one side to death, it's about trying to persuade people by being polite, and perhaps using ''+1'' to show them that a majority may believe something else.
I'm not sure what +1 has to do with being polite. And, like I said, majority only matters when talking about products. If there's a majority on the other side of a religion debate, are you going to switch sides? Are you going to buy Colgate instead of Crest if the majority so dictates?

[Mikefule]

The only time when thought is avoided, is when people cannot see both sides of a debate. Again, it's not about fighting one side to death, it's about trying to persuade people by being polite, and perhaps using ''+1'' to show them that a majority may believe something else.

James

That whole post was a pretty mature comment on the nature of the debate.

A couple of minor points:

Not all debates have two sides. Sometimes there are three or more sides. The idea of a simple "binary" debate is the sort of lazy thinking (on the part of western society as a whole, not James) which leads to disputes, wars and general folly. If there are only two possible answers, one "must be wrong".

I am responsible for training colleagues at work in a job that involves investigation and decision making, and one of the things I always emphasise is that there may be several ways of explaining the facts.

The other way that a debate may not have two sides is if one side really is spurious. Let's have a debate: I think that space aliens have not taken over Nelson's column and set it up as a transmitter to attract invading forces from a hitherto unknown planet in our solar system. Someone else, argues that space aliens have (etc.). Do you feel obliged to give equal weight to both sides of the debate?

Secondly, a pedantic point: it's not about <<trying to persuade people by being polite, >> Trying to persuade them BY being polite? I think you meant, "whilst remaining polite". The degree of politeness should have no bearing on the persuasiveness of an argument.

Thirdly, the majority is not always reliable. At one time, the majority of people thought that the world was flat. The majority of people in the world today are Chinese, and have very different ways of seeing the world from, for example, Americans or British subjects. Hitler was voted into power democratically.

If we took our guide from the majority of purchases made (every Pound or Dollar spent is a vote for something) then we would conclude that the ideal cycle has two wheels and at least 18 gears, and front and rear suspension. Lance Armstrong or Kris Holm, or indeed Mikefule, would disagree, as would many of the people in this forum.

The important thing in debate is not to regard it as an argument to be won. No one ever learned anything by having his opinion accepted, unchallenged and unmodified.

[s7ev0]

I have this great mental image of a self-satisfied Gilby reading this thread while sitting in his white oval swivel chair stroking his long haired cat, thinking, "Hmmm, it's all happening just like I planned it..."

In a long winded "+1" I'd like to agree with Mr Boogiejuice, Cathwood, Mikefule and Harper. I've just returned to posting here after a gap and this is by far and away the best forum I frequent. The vast range of nationalities, age groups and backgrounds of members make it a very interesting place, and I particularly admire the way Gilby allows the community to be self-policing. I can't remember ever witnessing anything awful on here, but I have seen a few timely reminders to posters by others that have been heeded.

It's a community and like any other, if all members are ready to step in when necessary then the "state police" are rendered irrelevant. I think the old adage goes something like - it only takes good men to do nothing for evil to flourish.

Having said all this, maybe a couple of forum etiquette reminders might be worth posting on a sticky?

[zfreak220]

+1, lol jk, never done that before....
we need a FAQ's as a totally new part of the forums, like how to get sponsored and stuff, and rec for tricks,or unicycles ppl who need advice on a trick, not to many ppl go to the tutorial section, because noone looks at it, well now a lot of ppl look at it in comparison to the other sections.

Do you really think a renamed section would get more traffic? FAQ, Tutorials, the purpose they serve is similar enough that one can suffice for forum usage without the other.

[jamessd]

That whole post was a pretty mature comment on the nature of the debate.

A couple of minor points:

Not all debates have two sides. Sometimes there are three or more sides. The idea of a simple "binary" debate is the sort of lazy thinking (on the part of western society as a whole, not James) which leads to disputes, wars and general folly. If there are only two possible answers, one "must be wrong".

I am responsible for training colleagues at work in a job that involves investigation and decision making, and one of the things I always emphasise is that there may be several ways of explaining the facts.

The other way that a debate may not have two sides is if one side really is spurious. Let's have a debate: I think that space aliens have not taken over Nelson's column and set it up as a transmitter to attract invading forces from a hitherto unknown planet in our solar system. Someone else, argues that space aliens have (etc.). Do you feel obliged to give equal weight to both sides of the debate?

Secondly, a pedantic point: it's not about <<trying to persuade people by being polite, >> Trying to persuade them BY being polite? I think you meant, "whilst remaining polite". The degree of politeness should have no bearing on the persuasiveness of an argument.

Thirdly, the majority is not always reliable. At one time, the majority of people thought that the world was flat. The majority of people in the world today are Chinese, and have very different ways of seeing the world from, for example, Americans or British subjects. Hitler was voted into power democratically.

If we took our guide from the majority of purchases made (every Pound or Dollar spent is a vote for something) then we would conclude that the ideal cycle has two wheels and at least 18 gears, and front and rear suspension. Lance Armstrong or Kris Holm, or indeed Mikefule, would disagree, as would many of the people in this forum.

The important thing in debate is not to regard it as an argument to be won. No one ever learned anything by having his opinion accepted, unchallenged and unmodified.

Thanks, all points taken.

[jamessd]

I'm not sure what +1 has to do with being polite. And, like I said, majority only matters when talking about products. If there's a majority on the other side of a religion debate, are you going to switch sides? Are you going to buy Colgate instead of Crest if the majority so dictates?

With the polite thing, I was just referring to how I found harpers post slightly biased.

And with religion, that's a personal belief and not something i'd debate about unless I was a raving church-goer.
Well toothpaste and suchlike, what can I say? It's another personal thing, where people aren't usually stupid enough to have to ask other people or browse for opinions to sway their choice of purchase. However, as you said if it's a product, unicycle set-up, or advice on how to do something - ''+1'' is more than acceptable. I think you agree with this.

[monkeyman]

However, as you said if it's a product, unicycle set-up, or advice on how to do something - ''+1'' is more than acceptable. I think you agree with this.
Oh yes, fully. It just seemed like you were saying that +1 was always appropriate if someone was agreeing with someone else....that, I don't agree to.

[GILD]

Quoting an entire post just to mention that you're noting the concerns is just chewing up bandwidth, in quite a wastefull manner.
Quote the first and the last sentence.

I think it might be a good idea for everone to open a GOOGLE window and search for 'forum ettiquette'.
We all have a lot to learn.

[GILD]

Quoting an entire post just to mention that you're noting the concerns is just chewing up bandwidth, in quite a wastefull manner.
Quote the first and the last sentence.

I think it might be a good idea for everone to open a GOOGLE window and search for 'forum ettiquette'.
We all have a lot to learn.

[jamessd]

Well look, sorry if I offended you, but it looks like you posted twice which is also ''chewing up bandwidth'' isn't it!

Hehe

Just joking, maybe I wont quote whole posts in the future but do bear in mind i've only been using these forums for a few days!

[feel the light]

I would post it, but a one minute video uses as much bandwidth as this forum does all day. Oh ! what's that !, I think I see a penny on the floor. I'll be back with more on this important subject as soon as I find it's owner !:rolleyes:

[monkeyman]

I think it might be a good idea for everone to open a GOOGLE window and search for 'forum ettiquette'.
We all have a lot to learn.

Aka, this (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Forum_Etiquette). It all applies to this forum as well. Especially the power-posting part.

Seriously though...it wouldn't kill you to go there, and read through it. It might take you 3 minutes, if you're a slow reader. If all of us at least tried to follow those rules, it'd reduce a lot of the clutter here.

[GILD]

Thanx Alex.
I see some people on the forum aren't aware of the fact that there are still people in this world who do not have broadband access.
Eish.
I have no idea what the double-post is all about.
A glitch in the matrix is my best guess, I hope Keanu gets on it real quick.
What are you still doing reading my nonsense?
Go read Alex's link.

[feel the light]

I just like to make fun sometimes:)
Seriously now, try this experiment. Copy the largest text post on this page, and copy it to a new text file on your desk top. Right click on it and select properties. You will see a file size of about 2 kb. We are allowed to upload pictures to this forum of 1 MB in size. What I'm trying to say is a picture will use 500 x the bandwidth of a long winded text post alone. You aren't trying to save a penny here, but rather a tiny tiny fraction of a penny !:cool:

[dudewithasock]

Alex, I read that site, and all of the things on there are really not that big of a problem on these forums. On some forums, sure, some of those problems are a big deal - but really, we've got it pretty good here. We get the occasional troll, but most of the time they don't last long or are generally ignored (ChuckNorrisUnicycles, anyone?), and yeah, sometimes there are some negative things said about people (ShaunJ, perhaps?), but really, we're not that bad off.

I think some people's expectations are too high for internet "etiquette". It's like people that go into a high school and expect every student to be polite to one another. Not gonna happen.

In this age of widespread digital communication (at least in developed countries), people need to learn to not expect so much from people, because like it or not, they will be disappointed if they do so. There's a reason that ignore tools exist, and that you have the ability to simply pay no mind to a thread if you so choose.

[harper]

The etiquette site that Alex provides a link to refers to threads of a personal nature as being a no-no. I think there may be an exception to this. The Oklahoma City Area Unicyclists and the Virginia Unicyclists each use a continuous thread to organize rides for folks in their area. This is a good thing. The Oklahoma boys even do it in JC so they are exceptionally polite about it. The Vancouver riders, the Seattle riders, and the NYC riders are lucky enough to have internet savvy guys to set up mailing lists for them. Not every group has that ability and it's nice that they can maintain a thread on this site for their activities. Another plus is that people traveling to their areas know what's going on there ride-wise without having to join their mailing lists.

[monkeyman]

I took the meaning of personal to be just a few people...like if I made a thread for people who go to Garland High School. That's four forum-ers, only two of which still post. I think the city-wide threads are just fine...they help get riders together, which is half the point of the forum.

[BillyTheMountain]

I'm thinking each year Gilby should post a video of his "State of the Forums" speech.