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semplice
2007-03-17, 08:18 AM
Hi there, i`m new member of this forum - name is Chris and country is Poland :-)

My question is:
Which trial uni will last if i try to do some big drops on it? I`m rather big guy - 193 cm and 109 kg. :-)
I thought about koxx devil... how do you think?
I`m sure that there are a bunch of big guys riding trial or maybe this type of riding is not possible with weights over 60 kg?


Greetings
Chris

brendan
2007-03-17, 08:45 AM
well its pretty impossible to decide which is stronger between the qu-ax yellow hub trials uni, the koxx devil and the KH 07.

The qu-ax MDC edition is abit heavier than the other two, but hardly makes a difference, and the koxx devil has a slightly weaker rim and crmo steel frame.

the KH20" has an aluminium frame so abit weaker but stronger rim. And its overall lightness, is good.

Now people can argue over crank strength for ages lol, but in the end no one knows. So as long as it is splined it'll hopefully be able to support you.

feel the light
2007-03-17, 06:39 PM
I am sure even a top grade uni has a limit. For your sake lets hope it's 300 lbs. and not 250 ! I would suggest asking about warrenties. It sounds like you may need one. Ask UDC what the strongest rim is, or has the best warrenty etc.
It's not that hard or much more expensive to make a custom out of parts. It is rare for splined hubs to fail, yet if I were you I would pay extra for the profile hub (life time free replacement). Tell UDC why you want to build a truck, they may suggest what frame is strongest etc.
Normally, everyone just agrees you should get a KH or Koxx and nothing will break. For you, parts will break much much sooner. I say make a custom with a profile hub, and select your other parts more by the replacement policy then other considerations.
I fear you will be disappointed with any stock uni. You would be wise to research this carefully. Talk to UDC and renagade.

semplice
2007-03-17, 06:52 PM
Right, good point with the warranty. Yet, it might be difficult here in Poland - we have just a couple of uni dealers... Maybe they will help me out - these stores are established by "uni freaks" :-)

president_luke
2007-03-17, 07:09 PM
I am sure even a top grade uni has a limit. For your sake lets hope it's 300 lbs. and not 250 ! I would suggest asking about warrenties. It sounds like you may need one. Ask UDC what the strongest rim is, or has the best warrenty etc.
It's not that hard or much more expensive to make a custom out of parts. It is rare for splined hubs to fail, yet if I were you I would pay extra for the profile hub (life time free replacement). Tell UDC why you want to build a truck, they may suggest what frame is strongest etc.
Normally, everyone just agrees you should get a KH or Koxx and nothing will break. For you, parts will break much much sooner. I say make a custom with a profile hub, and select your other parts more by the replacement policy then other considerations.
I fear you will be disappointed with any stock uni. You would be wise to research this carefully. Talk to UDC and renagade.

I disagree. A KH/Qu-ax/koxx is stronger than anything you'll get custom. Also Kh isis cranks/hub are much stronger than proflies and much cheaper.

maximus unius
2007-03-17, 09:03 PM
Unfortunately, even small stuff you do on the uni is gonna put a considerable amount of stress on it. If you really want to stick with stock uni's then get the qu-ax or KH. Otherwise, if you want a uni that can take a beating (even with your weight) I'd go with something like this:

UDC carbon fiber seat base
KH handle and bumper
KH fusion cover
Nimbus II frame
KH Hub and cranks
Pedals of your choice
Spokes from bike shop or MDC
Koxx STREET RIM- Not the drilled one!
Random tube
Tire of your choice

Now, all of this stuff is avaliable from MDC (municycle.com). Roland runs that, so you can email him or call about buying the things that you want. I'm sure that you can also get him to do the wheelbuild if you don't want to do it yourself.

feel the light
2007-03-17, 09:55 PM
I think you want to shop here
http://www.unicycle.uk.com/
Shipping costs to Poland from the states will be considerable. On warranty claims, they will make you pay postage. So you should buy on your side of the pond. I doubt your local shops will have a selection to rival UDC (unicycle dot com).
It's intresting that UDC US stocks different parts then UDC UK.
Saddly, the warranty on stuff from UDC is only 30 days. Other then the Profile hub and crank set, you will have to gamble.
The profile was the first splined set on the market. Kris Holms used them for 5 years himself. The KH may be stronger but so what? As soon as you break one you will wish you had a broken profile instead.

maximus unius
2007-03-17, 10:04 PM
I think you want to shop here
http://www.unicycle.uk.com/
Shipping costs to Poland from the states will be considerable. On warranty claims, they will make you pay postage. So you should buy on your side of the pond. I doubt your local shops will have a selection to rival UDC (unicycle dot com).
It's intresting that UDC US stocks different parts then UDC UK.
Saddly, the warranty on stuff from UDC is only 30 days. Other then the Profile hub and crank set, you will have to gamble.
The profile was the first splined set on the market. Kris Holms used them for 5 years himself. The KH may be stronger but so what? As soon as you break one you will wish you had a broken profile instead.

No, he wants to shop at MDC, because that is in Germany...


And, why do you think all the relly good riders switched to KH Moments? Because they are better and don't need a warrenty. Ryan himself said that when he used profiles (for at least a few years) he bent them 13 times. He's been riding Moments for almost a year if I'm not mistaken and hasn't bent or broken them once.

mornish
2007-03-17, 10:19 PM
Unfortunately, even small stuff you do on the uni is gonna put a considerable amount of stress on it. If you really want to stick with stock uni's then get the qu-ax or KH. Otherwise, if you want a uni that can take a beating (even with your weight) I'd go with something like this:

UDC carbon fiber seat base
KH handle and bumper
KH fusion cover
Nimbus II frame
KH Hub and cranks
Pedals of your choice
Spokes from bike shop or MDC
Koxx STREET RIM - Not the drilled one!
Random tube
Tire of your choice

Now, all of this stuff is avaliable from MDC (municycle.com). Roland runs that, so you can email him or call about buying the things that you want. I'm sure that you can also get him to do the wheelbuild if you don't want to do it yourself.

Koxx STREET RIM - Not the drilled one! why would he want the undrilled one? the KH rim is probably just as strong because of the superiour metal...


also, a cf base really isn't needed until you have broken your normal base, you'd have to buy a seat anyway for the foam, cover, and handle/ bumper.

brendan
2007-03-17, 10:33 PM
anwyays buying profiles in europe is hard, so shipping will cost you loads, might as well buy 5 pairs of moment cranksets. Plus as someone said above, they seem to be doing better than profiles for ryan atkins... which is defo a good sign.

btw about the higher grade material... some info about 7075 aluminium

"Although the 7075-T6 aluminum has a much higher strength to weight ratio, it does have a higher tendency of cracking than 6061 T6."
from http://www.ihpva.org

so just to say 7075 aluminium doesnt mean the koxx rim is that much weaker than the kh07. but again i'm gonna get hammered by kh followers for this

maximus unius
2007-03-17, 10:34 PM
why would he want the undrilled one? the KH rim is probably just as strong because of the superiour metal...


also, a cf base really isn't needed until you have broken your normal base, you'd have to buy a seat anyway for the foam, cover, and handle/ bumper.

I was just giving suggestions. I agree, the KH 07 rim is probably as strong as the Koxx street rim, but the Koxx drilled rim is deff. not as strong as the undrilled one.

It's cheaper to go strait with CF. Watch.

Strait to CF:
(In USD)

CF base: $78
Cover: $15
Bumper +handle: $12
Random foam from crafts shop or something: ~$10
=
~$115

Plastic base then CF:
(Also in USD)

KH plastic base: $52
CF:$78
=
$140


I win:)

bungalistic
2007-03-17, 10:52 PM
Hi there, i`m new member of this forum - name is Chris and country is Poland :-)
I`m sure that there are a bunch of big guys riding trial or maybe this type of riding is not possible with weights over 60 kg?

Greetings
Chris

Welcome Chris any of the unicycles mentioned in this thread will be fine, what I wonder is why you say you're a big guy when you weigh over 60kg. How much over 60kg?
I weigh 67kg and ride KH07 and so far no problems at all I have total confidence in the strength of the frame.
I'm more likely to break myself than the unicycle.

brendan
2007-03-17, 10:53 PM
I was just giving suggestions. I agree, the KH 07 rim is probably as strong as the Koxx street rim, but the Koxx drilled rim is deff. not as strong as the undrilled one.


well i'm not actaully that sure. I'm not a straight stupid koxx-one lover, but before the kh07 unis came out, everyone was bashing drilled rims, now that KH has gone drilled everyone thinks they are awesome.

And ok they are in a slightly different alloy than the koxx-one rims but still.

Also people will argue that koxx rims bend real easily. Well thats simplyc cause they are sold on alot of bikes and unis, a lot lot more are sold than KH rims. So pretty obviously more of them will break.

Also spoke tension is probably more important than rim material.

But to finish it all off, if ur buying for a custom uni, i really dont see what kind of idiot would choose a koxx rim they are like twice the price of a KH07 rim, which is ridiculous. Ok they come in cool colours but still.

edit : to the person above... do people ever read the posts? he is 109kg, quite abit over 60kg....

bungalistic
2007-03-17, 10:57 PM
edit : to the person above... do people ever read the posts? he is 109kg, quite abit over 60kg....

Missed that bit I read the bottom bit where he mentioned 60kg thought it seemed a little strange

semplice
2007-03-18, 06:24 AM
I have read many posts on many forums and noticed that average of the weight was about 60kg (speaking about guys riding trial) - that gave me the impression that i might be a "little bit" too heavy :-)
Thanks for all the replies - it is a big help

DustinSchaap
2007-03-18, 09:05 AM
Hi there, i`m new member of this forum - name is Chris and country is Poland :-)

My question is:
Which trial uni will last if i try to do some big drops on it? I`m rather big guy - 193 cm and 109 kg. :-)
I thought about koxx devil... how do you think?
I`m sure that there are a bunch of big guys riding trial or maybe this type of riding is not possible with weights over 60 kg?


Greetings
Chris

I've heard Egon say that Roland did 2 meter drops on a Qu-Ax unicycle, he's pretty tall and 90kg, maybe you should contact a unicycle store to see what they say? Roland is from Municycle.com and he has lots of experience with unicycles, you might as well ask him.

feel the light
2007-03-19, 01:22 AM
I'm sorry if I implied that I knew for sure a 250 lb. guy doing repeated 4 ft. drops would break any stock uni quickly. I really don't know. I suggest you ask very large shops like UDC or the municycle place in germany. They are the ones that get all the returns from big guys. Maybe you could buy a stocker and ride a long time with no trouble.
Surely there is a limit though. Good luck !

cool-bananas
2007-03-20, 10:52 AM
well speaking bout weights etc, what do people think is an ideal weight for trials, like what is average.

Lutz
2007-03-20, 12:42 PM
I dont would recoment you the koxx rim or koxx frame because I saw both of them break very easy on a convention last weekend (the rim on a 1,8m flat drop and the frame from a guy who recently start with unicycling and did not do anything big). The other problem with these products is, that they cost much more than the same products from other brands (KH rim is 20€cheaper and qu-ax or nimbus frames are cheaper also).

Hazmat
2007-03-20, 12:52 PM
I dont would recoment you the koxx rim or koxx frame because I saw both of them break very easy on a convention last weekend (the rim on a 1,8m flat drop and the frame from a guy who recently start with unicycling and did not do anything big). The other problem with these products is, that they cost much more than the same products from other brands (KH rim is 20€cheaper and qu-ax or nimbus frames are cheaper also).
Well after reading this, i'm glad i didn't buy that Koxx devil that was on sale in a bike shop close to where i live. Although i do feel sorry for the one who did buy it. :(

plumsie
2007-03-20, 01:27 PM
Also Kh isis cranks/hub are much stronger than proflies and much cheaper.

Can you prove this?

I would love to see some scientific basis for all the opinions that people on this newsgroup hand out as fact.

Plumsie

Smilymarco
2007-03-20, 01:41 PM
no scientific basis
just experience people had with different hubs/cranks and so on

Ryan Atkins for example went through profiles like butter (Kris said it here in the forum somewhere i think) and rides his first pair of moments for over a year now (as maximus unius said)

plumsie
2007-03-20, 02:38 PM
no scientific basis
just experience people had with different hubs/cranks and so on

Ryan Atkins for example went through profiles like butter (Kris said it here in the forum somewhere i think) and rides his first pair of moments for over a year now (as maximus unius said)

But that could just show improvements in technique or a loss of desire for "going big"

Until someone puts some strain gauges onto a variety of sets of hubs and cranks no-one will know for certain what is the strongest. Everything is subjective, I could say that I have been riding on my hub and cranks for 2 years now doing drops of up to 4 feet and riding down short flights of stairs and I haven't bent or broken them yet so they must be the strongest (UDC wide flange Cromo Hub and Qu-Ax aluminium cranks). How many people would argue with that statement? I am not very light and I have done a lot of bouncing around and not broken what I have got, Does that mean it is the strongest? I doubt it. I know it is very strong but I am sure there are stronger hubs available but until someone demonstrates what is strongest and shows some decent scientific proof then NO-ONE will know for certain what is strongest.

Plumsie

skilewis74
2007-03-21, 06:55 AM
But that could just show improvements in technique or a loss of desire for "going big"

Until someone puts some strain gauges onto a variety of sets of hubs and cranks no-one will know for certain what is the strongest. Everything is subjective, I could say that I have been riding on my hub and cranks for 2 years now doing drops of up to 4 feet and riding down short flights of stairs and I haven't bent or broken them yet so they must be the strongest (UDC wide flange Cromo Hub and Qu-Ax aluminium cranks). How many people would argue with that statement? I am not very light and I have done a lot of bouncing around and not broken what I have got, Does that mean it is the strongest? I doubt it. I know it is very strong but I am sure there are stronger hubs available but until someone demonstrates what is strongest and shows some decent scientific proof then NO-ONE will know for certain what is strongest.

Plumsie
Like silymarco said there is no measured data, just a lot of experience by really good riders.

Any splined hub and cranks are going to be much stronger than cotterless. Even if the hub is hardened CrMo steel.

Kris posted a while ago that Profile cranks would only last him a couple of months and he rode the moments for almost a year and not bent them.

If you are really conserned about wheel strength I'd consider sticking w/ the Qu-Ax. It's heavier but I think it would be the strongest, because of the 48 spoke hub, and rim.

semplice
2007-03-21, 06:04 PM
The good thing with qu-ax is that they have a branch office in Poland.
I thought about http://www.qu-ax.de/edata/htmls/m_munim24.html but i`m not sure about 24"... - maybe stay with the 20"?

bungalistic
2007-03-21, 06:28 PM
I dont would recoment you the koxx rim or koxx frame because I saw both of them break very easy on a convention last weekend (the rim on a 1,8m flat drop and the frame from a guy who recently start with unicycling and did not do anything big). The other problem with these products is, that they cost much more than the same products from other brands (KH rim is 20€cheaper and qu-ax or nimbus frames are cheaper also).

I don't see why unless through landing wrong or crashing out in some odd way that a frame would break it may have been just an odd occurance you saw you do ger faulty things being built. I've heard many reports on the rims breaking, at least the drilled ones anyway so i won't comment on them.
I agree with above comments that there really needs to be some more scientific proof as why these instances appear more with Koxx than for others, you would think Koxx would do this test as surely all the bad reports do them no good at all.

plumsie
2007-03-21, 08:35 PM
I agree with above comments that there really needs to be some more scientific proof as why these instances appear more with Koxx than for others, you would think Koxx would do this test as surely all the bad reports do them no good at all.

I would think that you would be more likely to get the company that thinks they have the strongest hub and cranks doing the test so that they could say that they have got the best product rather than someone who suspects that their product is inferior proving it to people and putting them off buying it.

The real test would be if someone independant was to carry out the testing to prevent bias from creeping in. The important part though is getting some sort of accurate figures for the strengths of a variety of crank sets.

I think the best way would be to build a small rig that could hold a hub in the same way that it is fitted to a frame and then subject the cranks to an increasing amount of force as if pressure was being applied to the pedals whilst monitoring a strain gauge to record the maximum force prior to breakage/deformation of the hub or cranks.

The other advantage of having a rig built to do this sort of test is that it would allow the manufacturer/designer that had it to test different designs prior to manufacture to ensure that standards were improving not falling or at least staying the same when a product was changed to save money/cut costs.

Any volunteers to build a rig capable of this? KHU, Koxx, Profile, Onza?

Plumsie

brendan
2007-03-21, 09:04 PM
well i wonder what sells best, KH20, or Koxx-one (but only their Trials/Street uni's).

This is not retorical, i'd honestly like to see the numbers. But in EU i recon koxx probably sell more, which could explain more broken things. In US its defo the KH20. And not many have complained about the moment crank, so that can only be a good thing. Personally that would be my crankset of choice if i was buying a uni today.

bungalistic
2007-03-21, 10:11 PM
So as far as frames go what do people think?
I've been thinking of getting a koxx devil frame as I want a black frame and i'd figured it was cheaper getting that then powder coating my current frame.
I currently have the KH06 frame which I can't really complain about apart from one tiny thing and that is getting hold of replacement bearing clamps (had to order mine from bedford, cheers darren :cool: ).
I realise that this is a technique issue really but the clamps don't take much bashing to wear down before interfering with the bearings.
Would a koxx frame take this beating any better and is it still more or less impossible to get spare bearing clamps for these too?
What do people think?

craigcbr
2007-03-22, 12:43 AM
i might be able to do some tests on them in collage using the machines we have i.e preasure,twisting, bending,downforce,puling apart tests and such like machines which will give out the accurate readings but i am not wiling to pay for any of the materials such as cranks and such like as i dont have the money to fund such tests.

feel the light
2007-03-22, 02:09 AM
KH could build us the truck trials 300 easily if he wanted to. Just use the same materials and construction he uses now, and doubling the load strength by using more metal. It would be more complex, to do a good job, then simply doubling of metal thickness, but you get the idea. Hopefully there is a suitable tire, and there you have it. A uni that takes repeated 8' drops by a 387 lb. Samoan uni trials champion.
However, this still leaves the large problem of convincing Samoens to ride unicycles in large enough numbers to find one who can land an 8 ft. drop and not go splat. And then he can start selling the 22 lb. trials truck 300 to an eager world wide market.
And a big market it will be.

mornish
2007-03-22, 03:22 AM
KH could build us the truck trials 300 easily if he wanted to. Just use the same materials and construction he uses now, and doubling the load strength by using more metal. It would be more complex, to do a good job, then simply doubling of metal thickness, but you get the idea. Hopefully there is a suitable tire, and there you have it. A uni that takes repeated 8' drops by a 387 lb. Samoan uni trials champion.
However, this still leaves the large problem of convincing Samoens to ride unicycles in large enough numbers to find one who can land an 8 ft. drop and not go splat. And then he can start selling the 22 lb. trials truck 300 to an eager world wide market.
And a big market it will be.

no offense meant, but that is the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

Danni
2007-03-22, 06:01 AM
no offense meant, but that is the stupidest idea I've ever heard.
+1.

No fat guy would be a uni trials champ.

brendan
2007-03-22, 10:37 AM
i have the koxx devil crmo frame and all i can say is that its holding up great. But the bearing clamps on the KH07 frame look beafier.

The clamps on the koxx frame look like the normal standart ones tbh... however you can get hold of those real easy. but honestly i wouldnt bother spending ur money on a koxx devil frame if its just for the bearing holders.

as for that massive uni... lol i just hopeu werent serious

Smilymarco
2007-03-22, 11:43 AM
http://www.johann3s.de/media/pics/8/26.jpg


Like Lutz said, no big things where made with the frame... it just cracked. Dont know the guy who owned the frame.

If you already got a KH frame... dont change it


If you want a black frame i would take this one:
http://www.einradladen.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=59&language=en

way cheaper than the Koxx and without the ugly sticker lol :D

And for the bearing clamp issue:
http://www.einradladen.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60&products_id=8
They fit the 20 Inch standart frame

brendan
2007-03-22, 03:50 PM
looks like the frame might have been badly welded or something... but thats pretty unlucky lol

bungalistic
2007-03-22, 06:55 PM
i have the koxx devil crmo frame and all i can say is that its holding up great. But the bearing clamps on the KH07 frame look beafier.

The clamps on the koxx frame look like the normal standart ones tbh... however you can get hold of those real easy. but honestly i wouldnt bother spending ur money on a koxx devil frame if its just for the bearing holders.

as for that massive uni... lol i just hopeu werent serious

It ain't just for bearing clamps because I realise that would be stupid. I wanted a black frame and thought that would be the strongest and cheapest and wouldn't add too much weight and it would be cheaper to buy a frame rather than paint what i already had.
I'll maybe look into that other frame that Smilymarco suggested though as it even cheaper and hopefully replacement parts are easier to get in the UK.

Getting replacement bits for KH uni's is hard in the UK.

brendan
2007-03-22, 10:56 PM
koxx uses those exact clamp fittings on the devil frame, so getting replacements would be a doddle.

and yeah powdercoating would be more than a koxx frame probably lol.

bungalistic
2007-03-23, 07:36 AM
I think what i'll do is give those helpful boys at unicycle.com a ring and see what spares fit what and how easy it is to get them.
The only thing wrong with the other standard black frame is i'd have to buy seat post and clamp also as the ones on my uni now are different sizes.
But if Koxx also just use the standard clamps like fitted to nimbus and standrad frames then that would make replacement bits a load easier.
I'll prob wait till BUC too to see what folk may be selling and what other people think of various uni's and how they hold up.
Cheers for help and advice so far folks :)