Who shops at the Health Fraud Store--err, I mean Health Food Store

[BillyTheMountain]

"Health Food" stores promote so many health frauds.

Modern science increased the lifespan in industrialized nations, but all the health frauds have not.

How is it that "scientists" like Lionel Whats-his-name can push Mega-vitamins without any scientific basis.

Next time your at the health food store, tell them your looking for something for a friend with cancer, and they'll give you several health fraudulent products. I'll bet on it.

[JJuggle]

Were you looking for an argument or just to bestow your wisdom on us?

[steveyo]

"Health Food" stores promote so many health frauds.

Modern science increased the lifespan in industrialized nations, but all the health frauds have not.

How is it that "scientists" like Lionel Whats-his-name can push Mega-vitamins without any scientific basis.

Next time your at the health food store, tell them your looking for something for a friend with cancer, and they'll give you several health fraudulent products. I'll bet on it.
Do you mean health food, as in organic nuts, beans and brown rice, or are you talking about the vitamin supplement stores in the mall?

[BillyTheMountain]

Do you mean health food, as in organic nuts, beans and brown rice, or are you talking about the vitamin supplement stores in the mall?

organic nuts, beans and brown rice have been around since the beginning of time. they are not promoted as cures for anything.

I'm talking about "health food" sections of malls, even grocery stores and pharmacies have them now, with a person there you can discuss your health problem with, and they'll pull something off the shelf to sell you for what ails you.

[JJuggle]

and they'll pull something off the shelf to sell you for what ails you.
Sounds alot like the God business you so frequently promote. ;)

[BillyTheMountain]

Sounds alot like the God business you so frequently promote. ;)

Glad you put that winkie in there, or people would think you were serious!

Or was that a sideways comment at the "scientific" people who can't tell fact from snake oil?

[BluntRM]

Natural cures that "they" don't want you to know about? (http://www.calcompnutrition.com/natural-cures-kevin-trudeau.html) :D


Edit: Kevin Trudeau was a used car salesman convicted of some level of fraud before he later wrote this book containing natural cures to cancer that "they" don't want you to know about. He was simultaneously being brought up on charges for the fradulent claims his book made as he was selling millions of copies on TV...

[JJuggle]

Glad you put that winkie in there, or people would think you were serious!

Or was that a sideways comment at the "scientific" people who can't tell fact from snake oil?
Sorry, let's try this:

Sounds alot like the God business you so frequently promote.

[BillyTheMountain]

Sorry, let's try this:

Sounds alot like the God business you so frequently promote.

You misunderstand me if you think I'm promoting any God business. That sounds like something churches (even UU), temples, etc, do. Mystics are a bit more independent, and not promoters, so far as I can see.

I am searching, and sharing my thoughts and confusion, and debating to test my own ideas and learn more. I'm sure in doing so I could have easliy given the wrong impression. But I'm certain no bad consequences will ensue, either way.

Not something I recommend when a cancer patient walks into a health food store. When bad consequences CAN and DO ensue.

[Gilby]

organic nuts, beans and brown rice have been around since the beginning of time. they are not promoted as cures for anything.

Cures? You're looking for cures? Good luck with that. Our health care system is set up for long term costly treatments, not cures.

[steveyo]

Cures? You're looking for cures? Good luck with that. Our health care system is set up for long term costly treatments, not cures.This is so true. A private drug company makes infinitely more money treating a disease like, say diabetes, than curing it. It's an immeasurably big dis-incentive for them to create cures for anything that they make money "treating". This is a huge reason for one-payer (i.e. govt run) system.

[Gilby]

This is a huge reason for one-payer (i.e. govt run) system.

Oh no, don't go there. That's a treatment instead of a cure. The cure is to drop the patent system and set up a system where your health insurance is rewarded for your good long term health.

[steveyo]

Oh no, don't go there. That's a treatment instead of a cure. The cure is to drop the patent system and set up a system where your health insurance is rewarded for your good long term health.Whether the ins. was private or public, they would have incentive to cure diseases, not just treat them.

Plus I knew I'd getcha with that comment!

Billy - sorry to get off-topic on your ass.

[Gilby]

Whether the ins. was private or public, they would have incentive to cure diseases, not just treat them.
A one-payer run system, otherwise known as a government monopoly, has little incentive to make progress. Make it a private system, whether government funded or not, and you get many companies competing to make the cures in the cheapest and most effective way possible.

[BluntRM]

A one-payer run system, otherwise known as a government monopoly, has little incentive to make progress. Make it a private system, whether government funded or not, and you get many companies competing to make the cures in the cheapest and most effective way possible.

Or they spend twice as much on advertising as they do R&D (Pfzier) developing phrases like ED and skewing the focus of medical research towards topical middle class afflictions (Erectile Dysfunction?)-- Chagras disease, AIDS, water quality, there are many health issues that won't be addressed in any effective capacity by private entities unless they are drenched in gov't subsidies, public-private "reaching around your ass to scratch your elbow", arrangements.

Free markets don't distribute flu shots reasonably.


Hey Billy/JJuggle, alternate personalities, "the twins", sorry for the threadjack.

[Gilby]

Or they spend twice as much on advertising as they do R&D (Pfzier) developing phrases like ED and skewing the focus of medical research towards topical middle class afflictions (Erectile Dysfunction?)-- But my bouquet of flowers could use some help with ED (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,21099,00.html). You have to remember that spending money on marketing is not taking away from R&D spending. The company is simply doing what they need to maximize the profit on their successful product that they have a government enforced monopoly on. This does not take away from R&D in other areas as they can get the funding for marketing efforts based on expected future revenue on it.

Free markets don't distribute flu shots reasonably.
How so? Too bad a free-market has not been tried to prove or disprove this specific issue. Our health care system is far from a free market to make a claim that current failures are because of a free market system.

[thejdw]

Do you mean products like ativmel saying stuff like a bottel a-day will improve you energy level or improve your brain power? :confused:

[BillyTheMountain]

Do you mean products like ativmel saying stuff like a bottel a-day will improve you energy level or improve your brain power? :confused:

Definitely!
and the "natural antidepressants" and lots of other "natural" stuff.

Stevyo! Hey dude, it's all good. I never go off topic or threadjack, but you're my man, and I trust you'll take me someplace good!

[BillyTheMountain]

Gilby,

IF God forbid anyone you know gets cancer or high blood pressure or a life threatening depression, I'm praying you don't send them to the health fraud store for some snake oil. You're really much too sensible for that. Don't try to carry this too far, the children are listening.

[thejdw]

Definitely!
and the "natural antidepressants" and lots of other "natural" stuff.

You as well eat healthaly that wast your money on that stuff in my opinion ;)

[Gilby]

IF God forbid anyone you know gets cancer or high blood pressure or a life threatening depression, I'm praying you don't send them to the health fraud store for some snake oil. You're really much too sensible for that. Don't try to carry this too far, the children are listening.

I'm not sure what you are implying, but the FDA's one size fits all, let's hold down the little companies by favoring the big, does not help with people's health problems. If anyone I know gets sick, I want them and their doctor to choose what's best for them to get better and actually have choice. Not all drugs work the same in everybody and they should not be restricted by what a government monopoly has picked and chosen to be on the market, but be restricted by what the actual effects and risks are. If supplements are recommended by the MD, then that should be accessible, not restricted or made excessively expensive (as the government intends to do (http://www.google.com/search?q=S.+3546)). Some of us don't get enough essential vitamins in our diet and may want to take a daily multi-vitamin, but that possibility is heading toward change, or at least towards higher costs for both the supplements and any medical care.

[BillyTheMountain]

I'm not sure what you are implying, but the FDA's one size fits all, let's hold down the little companies by favoring the big, does not help with people's health problems. If anyone I know gets sick, I want them and their doctor to choose what's best for them to get better and actually have choice.

I know there's a grain of truth to what you're saying, AND to some extent you are jacking the thread.

You're still not sending your friends to a witch doctor or helath fraud store clerk who opens up Ryan's [BluntRM] health fraud book to sell some snake oil off the shelf.

I thought you believed in evolution. I thought you believed in science. And not fraudulent science.

And I know the drug companies, fueled as they are by your almighty profit, hide negative results when it may interfere with profit, and that costs lives. And that system that calculates the cost of lives against the companies bottom line in the USA has been going on too long, even before the Ford Pinto death machines were deliberately left out to kill becasue the company calcualted the pay-out in lawsuits vs. the cost of resolving the problem.

[Gilby]

And I know the drug companies, fueled as they are by your almighty profit, hide negative results when it may interfere with profit, and that costs lives.

And therefore they would be liable to cover the damages, that hurts their profits and makes them do proper research to ensure quality before releasing a product. And yes, our legal system is broken and could use reform to get the true actual cost to be paid by whomever is at fault.

[BillyTheMountain]

Gilby: Our legal system is BROKEN??!

Wealthy criminals go free, poor cannot afford to prove they're innocent.

Wealthy corporations lobby, and therefore make the laws and regulations.

Stop health fraud.