An atheist living in a Calvinist world

[JJuggle]

I work for Lucent, one of the two companies mentioned in the article below. The pertinent sections are highlighted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alcatel says most job cuts in high wage countries
Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:00am ET31

BARCELONA, Nov 15 (Reuters) - Alcatel (CGEP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Wednesday most of the 9,000 job cuts following its merger with Lucent Technologies Inc to create the world's leading telecoms equipment vendor will be in North America and western Europe.

"Most of the 9,000 people will be terminated in high wage countries, in North America and western Europe," Chief Financial Officer Jean-Pascal Beaufret said at a Morgan Stanley investor conference here.

"Close to 90 percent of headcount (reductions) will be done in western Europe and North America," he added.

Beaufret said Alcatel and Lucent "know precisely in every country which head will taken", but declined to specify further.

Staff cuts will come mainly from redundant positions in sales and support functions which can be shared between the two companies.

As a combined company, Lucent and Alcatel would employ roughly 81,000 staff. The deal still has to be approved by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), which reviews the security impact of foreign companies buying U.S. assets.
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Here are the facts:

I live in North America
I am in a support position
To the best of our knowledge Alcatel does not have a department that does the kind of work we do. I am therefore, technically speaking, not redundant.
I've already survived no fewer than 8 rounds of layoffs in the past 10 years, 3 involving in excess of 10,000 employees, the rest ranging from several hundred to several thousand.

Here's your chance to predict the future.

[wobbling bear]

"Most of the 9,000 people will be terminated ..."[/b]
Wow! "terminated" that's scary. I have seen people "RIFed" (Reduction In Force) or "outsourced" but not terminated. Are their employees droïds?
Corporate communication is an art : I remember a prominent member of my former company declaring "Yes we outsource you so we keep value-added work within the company :cool: " he was surprised to learn that we sent pictures of him to the local Voodoo priest:D
Now I am surprised also that you may think that because your work is essential you won't lose your job. Usually the reverse is true: vaporjobs are the most secure! (though I have seen my former company try to hire back some employees it hastily fired : very funny pay raises ensued :p ).

[john_childs]

Do you speak or read French?

[JJuggle]

Wow! "terminated" that's scary. I have seen people "RIFed" (Reduction In Force) or "outsourced" but not terminated. Are their employees droïds?
Corporate communication is an art : I remember a prominent member of my former company declaring "Yes we outsource you so we keep value-added work within the company :cool: " he was surprised to learn that we sent pictures of him to the local Voodoo priest:D
The guy who said that is French. It's not necessarily clear whether he used that word. If he did, it may not have the full psychological impact as a non-native speaker of English as it does for native speakers. If he didn't then it may be a translation issue.

Now I am surprised also that you may think that because your work is essential you won't lose your job. Usually the reverse is true: vaporjobs are the most secure! (though I have seen my former company try to hire back some employees it hastily fired : very funny pay raises ensued :p ).
I didn't say that at all. I simply stated that my job is not redundant.

[JJuggle]

Do you speak or read French?
Funny. Minimally. I took French for 6 or 7 years in jr high and high school. I've been studying again for the past 3 months or so (with help from Zzagg). It would be stretch to say that my ability with the language would have any impact on whether or not I'm let go. And since the decisions about who stays and who goes have apparently already been made, it's apparent that it doesn't matter anyway.

But the official language of the combined company has already been declared to be English anyway.

C'est la vie.

[JayS]

I am guessing you wish to continue working, and wish you the best of luck. Hope things go your way. It doesn't LOOK too promising for you though.

Whether the job is redundant is probably not too important to the company. Major redundancies are rarely properly evaluated, but do give a company the chance to see, in retrospect, who was REALLY needed....and, over a longer term, to eventually replace needed workers with poorer paid employees. In many large companies there is much dead wood, wood that thinks it is producing leaves and fruit, but isn't.

Like you, I have survived 6 or 7 mass extinctions. But the time has come for me to wish for the next. I now would like more than anything else to be on the list. I regard it as my right, now, to be offered one final chance to go...with my pockets filled of course. However it looks highly unlikely. So it is with a tinge of green in my face that I predict you will be fingered.

[UniBrier]

I'm a bit puzzled by your thread title. Are Alcatel and Lucent run by Huguenots?


Your situation sounds familiar to mine when I was with my prior employer. I went through years of mergers and layoffs, always weathering the storm. The stress of uncertainty wore on you. Right after 9/11 (not related) the company announced in October that they were doing a 10% layoff by December. My division survived without cuts and we were even assured the following March that the cuts were over...then in July we had to take the same 10% cut; since I was last in, it was first out. I ended up with a good job and only two days of unemployement between companies. A couple weeks ago I got this call from that company's recruiter...

Keep things in perspective, don't let the stress get to you.

[JJuggle]

I'm a bit puzzled by your thread title. Are Alcatel and Lucent run by Huguenots?
I am an atheist. Predestination is one tenet of Calvinism. The cuts have already been predetermined...

Keep things in perspective, don't let the stress get to you.
Thanks.

[BluntRM]

202-224-3121 is the capitol switchboard, you might consider stopping this aquisition in the CFIUS committee. Call and talk to the chair's office daily, get your co-workers involved, organize, mobilize, etc.

UniBriars right, it's a stressful situation, but it happens, and you can always bounce back from the worst.

[JJuggle]

202-224-3121 is the capitol switchboard, you might consider stopping this aquisition in the CFIUS committee. Call and talk to the chair's office daily, get your co-workers involved, organize, mobilize, etc.
I'd be lying if I said the thought hadn't crossed my mind. But I'd also be lying if I didn't say that I've succombed to inertia and cowardice as well as the inevitability of it all.

[wobbling bear]

The guy who said that is French. It's not necessarily clear whether he used that word. If he did, it may not have the full psychological impact as a non-native speaker of English as it does for native speakers. If he didn't then it may be a translation issue.

Well I am french, I am a non-native speaker of english, I suspect he declared that in the pigeon-english we use in big corporations.... but still surprised he used that word (in french it IS horrible! but decerebration is a universal thing :( ).
my advice: "proactively" :D search for another job .... I tried that, I did'nt succeeded (too old!) but, curiously, that relieved my stress.

[Borges]

my advice: "proactively" :D search for another job .... I tried that, I did'nt succeeded (too old!) but, curiously, that relieved my stress.
I back up that advice. The most stressfull situation is, not being able to do anything about your problems. It doesn't matter if it's looking for a job or mobilizing your coworkers, as long as you do something about it.

[Zzagg]

I can't speak about my personnal experience there, since i've never been involved in "firing plans".
Whatever you have to deal with (I hope it will be the best), please keep on speaking/writing french, my friend;)
BTW, in french we call this "une charette" = a cart. to get the metaphore, remember the "bring out your deads!" scene in Monthy pyton's Holly Graal:(

[unisk8r]

unicycle more! :D

[BillyTheMountain]

Now I am surprised also that you may think that because your work is essential you won't lose your job. Usually the reverse is true: vaporjobs are the most secure! (though I have seen my former company try to hire back some employees it hastily fired : very funny pay raises ensued :p ).

I didn't say that at all. I simply stated that my job is not redundant.

Dude,

....you've once again chosen to mischaracterize ... what I said.

raphael,

My lad, you doth protest too much.

You are...whatever we say you are. And you said...whatever we said you said.

And what about your persona of being an atheist religious instuctor living in a Calvinist world? Where on earth did you find a Calvinist world? Certainly not within 100 miles of NYC.

And altho I'm playing with you, I'm also praying for you, for the best outcome for you in this situation.

Love, BTM

[UniBrier]

Where on earth did you find a Calvinist world? Certainly not within 100 miles of NYC.There are several Calvinists still in NYC (http://www.google.com/maps?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGIC,GGIC:2006-43,GGIC:en&q=reformed+churches&near=New+York,+NY&sa=X&oi=local&ct=title). Although it looks like they've had some opposition already back 351 years in the New Amsterdam (http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinIntros/Netherlands.html) days.

The impact of these German and Scandinavian Lutheran immigrants is brought out in a controversy that arose because the Lutherans in Middleburg, Long Island were holding church services without an approved preacher. The New Amsterdam pastors brought this situation to the attention of the Director General, Pieter Stuyvesant at the end of 1655, requesting the services be halted. The dispute dragged on for years until a resolution was formulated by the West India Company directors in Amsterdam. It was decided to permit the Lutherans the right to worship by slightly adjusting the catechism. In order not to offend the Lutherans, the Company bluntly stated the complaining New Amsterdam Calvinist pastors would be replaced by younger ministers who were more liberal, unless the dispute was put aside.I'm playing with you too.

If an Athiest is living in a Calvinist world, can a Calvinist be living in an Athiest world?

[JJuggle]

Does anyone know or would you care to guess what a "synergy target" is?

[Naomi]

Does anyone know or would you care to guess what a "synergy target" is?

Investopedia Says: This term is used mostly in the context of mergers and acquisitions. For example, if Company A has an excellent product but lousy distribution whereas Company B has a great distribution system but poor products, the companies could create synergy with a merger.


Nao

[JJuggle]

Investopedia Says: This term is used mostly in the context of mergers and acquisitions. For example, if Company A has an excellent product but lousy distribution whereas Company B has a great distribution system but poor products, the companies could create synergy with a merger.
Yes, but how about specifically in the context of this thread. What is a "synergy target"?

[Naomi]

Yes, but how about specifically in the context of this thread. What is a "synergy target"?


Without precise context it is difficult not to see it as:

1) How many, and who, will go
2) How many, and who, will stay

Which is, I suppose, 2 ways of saying exactly the same thing. Having defined yin, need I really define yang?


Nao

[JJuggle]

Without precise context it is difficult not to see it as:

1) How many, and who, will go
2) How many, and who, will stay
Bingo!

Just another lovely term thrown out at a pre-merger meeting yesterday.

Our synergy targets are not yet determined, but we're all so looking forward to hearing what they are.

[Naomi]

Bingo!

Just another lovely term thrown out at a pre-merger meeting yesterday.

Our synergy targets are not yet determined, but we're all so looking forward to hearing what they are.


Think yourself lucky if you still get invited to the meetings.



Nao

[Borges]

Bingo!

Just another lovely term thrown out at a pre-merger meeting yesterday.

Our synergy targets are not yet determined, but we're all so looking forward to hearing what they are.

They know exactly how many people they can do without, but they haven't found out which positions are going to be redundant. It sounds like a backwards approach.

[BillyTheMountain]

Yes, but how about specifically in the context of this thread. What is a "synergy target"?

It's the target you throw your synergies at.

Now it's mostly done on computer games.

The game determines who gets to keep their job -- high score wins!!

[JJuggle]

So our two companies have officially merged. Here is a press release pertaining to our new logo which can be seen at our website, http://www.alcatel-lucent.com .

One rumor I've heard is that some guy got canned for sharing the logo with his colleagues a few hours before it was to be officially unveiled.

We're all anxiously waiting to see what Scott Adams, aka Dilbert, will do with this one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alcatel-Lucent Announces New Visual Identity

PARIS, December 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Alcatel-Lucent (Euronext
Paris and NYSE: ALU) today unveiled the new brand mark that will represent
the world's largest communications supplier. The new brand mark visually
signifies the two organizations flowing into each other, demonstrates an
embrace of the respective cultures and symbolizes the company's vision of
enriching people's lives by transforming the way the world communicates.
The company's new logo is a stylized version of an infinity symbol that
looks as if it were drawn by hand. Embedded within the symbol is an A and
an L. It is both fluid and infinite. The signature color of the new logo is
purple, a bold color that symbolizes ambition and is also associated with
creativity, wisdom and dignity.
"Our new logo represents the endless possibilities for the future and
our commitment to being a strong and enduring ally for our customers around
the world," said Patricia Russo, Chief Executive Officer of Alcatel-Lucent.
"The combined name of Alcatel-Lucent will enable us to capitalize on
the strong brand equity that both companies enjoy," said Serge Tchuruk,
Chairman of the Board of Alcatel-Lucent. "In addition, the combined name of
Alcatel-Lucent sends a message to our customers that the combined company
will provide continuity as well as dynamism," added Serge Tchuruk.

[BluntRM]

It is both fluid and infinite. The signature color of the new logo is
purple, a bold color that symbolizes ambition and is also associated with
creativity, wisdom and dignity.
"....continuity as well as dynamism"

It sounds like you're working for scientologists.

Edit: My tear ducts would likely have weld up at the site of such a magnificently desribed corporate logo.

[UniBrier]

I took one look at the logo and was reminded to take my pills.

[JJuggle]

It sounds like you're working for scientologists.
We're not?

Edit: My tear ducts would likely have weld up at the site of such a magnificently desribed corporate logo.
Did you mean your tear ducts would have welded shut?

[BluntRM]

Welled, but it is a glorious logo, you should be proud.

[BillyTheMountain]

Can anyone explain how the title of this thread relates to the content?

[UniBrier]

Can anyone explain how the title of this thread relates to the content?
Nope (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showpost.php?p=659276&postcount=8)

[Magic 8 Ball]

Here's your chance to predict the future.
Outlook hazy.

[Borges]

So, we're past halftime now. How does it look so far?

[unipsychler]

raphael,
And what about your persona of being an atheist religious instuctor living in a Calvinist world? Where on earth did you find a Calvinist world? Certainly not within 100 miles of NYC.
Love, BTM

I'm not looking to jack this thread but I couldn't help but respond to BTM's statement.

I'm a Calvinist and I live and go to church 30 minutes west of NYC. I also know of several other churches in the NY metro area that uphold the doctrines of Calvinism.

[BillyTheMountain]

I'm not looking to jack this thread but I couldn't help but respond to BTM's statement.

I'm a Calvinist and I live and go to church 30 minutes west of NYC. I also know of several other churches in the NY metro area that uphold the doctrines of Calvinism.

So that makes it a Calvinist world??

And, we fully expect to see you at LBI!

[unipsychler]

BTM, I was wondering about this thread title as well, as was UniBrier who asked for clarification a few posts back. JJuggles explanation was:

I am an atheist. Predestination is one tenet of Calvinism. The cuts have already been predetermined...


As for LBI, I'm predestined to be there. ;)

[JJuggle]

As for LBI, I'm predestined to be there. ;)
Maybe so, but I still need to see some registration forms coming in. :)

[unipsychler]

Maybe so, but I still need to see some registration forms coming in. :)

Oops! I'll mail the form on Monday.

[JJuggle]

So, we're past halftime now. How does it look so far?
Somehow I missed this post. Sorry.

Yesterday we got word that our department's layoffs will be announced tomorrow. We are a group of 24 with 20 staff, 3 managers, and one department head. We got no details on how many will go.

[JJuggle]

I have been spared.

5 of my colleagues are not so fortunate.

[Borges]

I have been spared. :)
5 of my colleagues are not so fortunate.:(

Is the justification still "synergy" when Alcatel doesn't have anyone doing the same thing your department does.

[JJuggle]

Is the justification still "synergy" when Alcatel doesn't have anyone doing the same thing your department does.
Not really. That is still the justification for a number of firings still going on. The company is still working to integrate departments from the two former entities that have similar or identical functions.

In our case it was simply a matter of eliminating costs, i.e. salaries, benefits, etc. My department will stop doing some of the things we have been doing and where we can't we will all be assigned new additional responsibilities.

A fellow I worked very closely with and who, although we didn't socialize outside of work, I consider a friend, was fired today.

[BillyTheMountain]

11-16-2006 was post #1.

By now we should know if you're still at the job 6 months later, and still an Atheist.

If you're still an Atheist, maybe you could talk to the rest of yoru Atheist community, and tell them to stop ringing my doorbell on Saturday mornings, trying to convert me to Atheism.

If they succeed, soon there'll be a Calvinist living in an Atheist world, something we only saw in China and USSR in the past.

[JJuggle]

If you're still an Atheist, maybe you could talk to the rest of yoru Atheist community, and tell them to stop ringing my doorbell on Saturday mornings, trying to convert me to Atheism.

Oh please Billy, the planet you live on, the solar system your planet inhabits, the galaxy that cradles your solar system, and the universe that surrounds us all cry out to you to give up your superstitions and instead wonder at their beauty and learn about their secrets. No atheist would ever bother knocking on your or anyone else's door.

Hey check it out:

Entertainment Weekly: Are you religious?
Jodie Foster: No, I'm an atheist. (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20051361_20051365_20054140,00.html)