Fiddly task.

[Mikefule]

As part of the midlife crisis, I've recently updated my once-rebellious1985 pierced ear lobe with an extra hole at the top of the ear. And yesterday, I tried for the first time to put a ring in with a ball closure.

That's a tiny little ball (about 5 mm across) with tiny little indentations in it. So you put the ring through the ear, then try to put the tiny little ends in the tiny little holes, while the tiny little ball slips about in your fingers, and the reflection of the overhead light makes it hard to see the holes, and everything moves the wrong way in the mirror, and if you drop the ball in the sink, it bounces for miles. That must be the fiddliest job ever.

10 minutes, and it felt like a world record. Is there a technique?:confused: :o

[cathwood]

Don't know. My top-of-the-ear piercings always got infected (and I couldn't sleep lying on them) so I never got to that stage. Went for the tatoos instead.

Cathy

[podzol]

sounds like a job for a friend with small fingers.

[phlegm]

At least you didn't drop the ball down the drain. My wife has lost several down sinks.

As far as rebellion goes, I much prefer rebelling against gravity. I'm a wuss when it comes to needles.

[Naomi]

As part of the midlife crisis, I've recently updated my once-rebellious1985 pierced ear lobe with an extra hole at the top of the ear. And yesterday, I tried for the first time to put a ring in with a ball closure.




In my home country there is still an underswell that sees tattoos as being badges signifying membership of some criminal gang or other. Of course it is no longer really true, but opinions such as these tend to die out with the generations, though the tattoo as a fashion item is now becoming more common even in Asia. Fashion, in Britain, seems to have a large lump of "wanting to look like everybody else, no matter what it looks like". Fashion for the rich and famous is evermore "wanting to look good, and also to look different and stand out". Two contrastingly different views for two socially and financially different groups.

It is something I have never really understood since coming here, and when I ask questions of people, I usually don't seem to be able to get anything like intelligent replies. This forum has a fair glut of bright people, some of whom seem to follow some of these trends, at least to an extent. Maybe I can get replies here that make sense to me. I realise that there may be a part of me that will be incapable of seeing reason in ANY reply to the questions. I also accept that I just might have posed the questions a little provocatively, but what else did you expect from me? I appear to be developing something of a reputation in the forum. Reputations need maintaining.
This post is partially prompted by someone, over the weekend, who expressed considerable surprise on being told that not one part of me, ears included, has ever been tattooed or pierced. So:

1) I can see a point in bikers who want to look tough, but otherwise
why tattoo yourself? Why do so many women line up at the sheep dip and the branding pens, to get the small of their backs tattooed?

2) Why dress like everybody else? Is there a national wish to blend unobtrusively into the background, to be missed, even ignored. Why buy something simply because it is "the fashion"? It allows manufacturers to get away with massed sales of what is often poor quality rubbish. Once they can define "the fashion" their sales are guaranteed.

3) Piercings. These seem to become ever more dramatic by the week. Mikefule has, in his top ear piercing, taken a step along what seems to be a very odd path. Why, Mike? Are you able to provide enlightenment for me? Why did you choose to Black and Decker your ear? Others go further, some sporting more facial hardware than B&Q, a few probably getting their noserings from the "Hereford Bull" tray at the farmers' supply merchant. Why? It can no longer be a wish to be different. The wish to be different has become a wish to be the same. Does it have ANY advantages at all? Disavantages? Some Middle Eastern airport metal scanners are exceptionally sensitive. Anyone had any particularly embarassing moments? Or any moments wishing you did not have that eyebrow pierced, times when you wish you had?

4) Do you think there is any correlation between IQ and number of "decorations" carried? ......oooooohh! said the crowd with a sharp intake of breath. :-)


Nao....sitting back and getting ready to duck out of the way of the shrapnel.

[dr.melon]

My advice- don't get them pierced! A waste of time if you ask me...then again I'm 14.

[cathwood]

Well, Nao. This is the answer from my point of view.

1. I have 3 tatoos (although none on the bottom of my back). I think I have had them a) because I like them and b) it's something to do with having little controll over the other perminent features of my body.

2. Don't know. I've never done this. Could hazard a guess via psychology but at the moment I'm in a hurry so I wont do now.

3. Probably the same answer as 1.

4. No. Whatever it's about I don't think it's anything to do with I.Q, but then neither are some forms of intelligence.

Cathy

[Naomi]

b) it's something to do with having little controll over the other perminent features of my body.


That is an interesting answer, one I had not thought of, and probably one of the best I have heard to date. I think is it possible, and I personally would prefer to achieve, more dramatic change by making non permanent tweaks. As I am sure you realise, I am not against these permanent changes for others, but just don't really see the point or any advantages.

I asked the IQ question because I work in what might be described as a high IQ environment, with a fairly large sample of people. Very, very few seek to make any permanent modification, and none at all have any facial piercings, ear-rings excepted. A few have none-permanent away from the norm features: male ponytails etc. The age profile at work is practically spectrum wide. If I move outside of this environment, the incidence of permanent decorations and piercings increases something like tenfold. There are no explicit rules in my workplace, although neither would there be any sort of encouragement. I suspect extremes might be viewed more seriously though, and visible "features" might quietly affect promotions.
I can understand this, for were I myself seeking to employ customer facing staff, I would probably consider whether facial metalwork might have an effect on my business.


Thanks for the answers

Nao

[bmemike]

Having more than a few piercings and a few tattoos, the art of inserting a ball into a captive bead ring (or ball closure ring - same thing, different name) can be a pain in the butt to learn.

As you know, the ball is kept in through tension. When piercers insert them, if the ring is too tight, they'll use a pair of "ring openers" that add a bit of outward force on a ring and slide the ball in gently and then release that pressure. In a pinch, I've seen people do the same with scissors - but care needs to be used and it's also good to cover the scissor arms with teflon (plumber's) tape or the fingers of gloves to prevent scratching the ring.

But all-in-all, the technique is simple in form - you drop one end of the ring into one of the "divitis" on the ball. Then, after lining up the second divit, just "push in" the ball until it pushes out the ring enough to drop the ring end into the divit.

(It really does sound a lot easier if you're not practiced at it)

Oh - and for someone that's not used to CBRs, 10 minutes isn't too surprising pending how small the balls are and how big your fingers are. I'm sure I know people personally that have taken longer.

----
As for me -

I've been getting pierced since I was 18 and tattooed since I was 21. Not "that long" in the grand scheme of things, but I have enough to know the "Why" as much as it can be articulated.

For me, I don't think I need to be limited to how I was born. I am the only person/being/whatever that has control over my body and I'm exercising my right to change it as I see fit. I personally find tattoos and piercings asthetically pleasing, so that is an obvious motivator.

As for my IQ, I don't know - never been tested. I'd say that I'm fairly bright as compared to friends that have had IQ tests. I have a rather successful job in IT / tech support and at my previous job went on site to very large customers to resolve software issues. (the point: my body modification hasn't prevented me from getting a good job)

All this aside, the reason "why" will change for every single person and will be a totally unique thing. It's as variable as why people choose a particular hair style. Some people will always do it "because it's 'what's in'" or "because my friends are doing it", etc. On top of that, all things that can be labled as "fashionable" come and go. However, there will always be people that care nothing for fashion and continue to follow the "now dead" trend despite it not being vogue. So while the question "why" may be the most obvious to ask, it's also the most irrelevant, since it's completely variable and different from person-to-person.

[rob.northcott]

I asked the IQ question because I work in what might be described as a high IQ environment, with a fairly large sample of people. Very, very few seek to make any permanent modification, and none at all have any facial piercings, ear-rings excepted <snip.....> If I move outside of this environment, the incidence of permanent decorations and piercings increases something like tenfold.
I know some very intelligent and well-educated people with lots of piercings (and some morons with none for that matter). I don't think there's a link between piercings and intelligence. I think many people who would consider having (visible) piercings are put off by the petty attitude of the majority of employers, and avoid the piercings in order to keep their jobs. I don't have any piercings, but I do have long dyed black hair and sometimes dress quite unconventionally (well, in comparison to the suit clone brigade anyway). My current employer is happy with that as long as I dress fairly normally if I need to meet customers (not very often, and anyway I think it's pretty much accepted that programmers will look weird). One of the brainy multi-pierced individuals I mentioned above used to work here, and he was expected to remove all his facial jewelery for work (and wasn't allowed to keep his blue hair). Personally I think he looked far less weird with the jewelery than with a face full of holes, but there you go.
I think some people can be very narrow-minded about other people's appearance, and those people tend to do well in business (run by these sort of people) and therefore become the next generation of narrow-minded bosses, and so it goes on.
It would be a very boring world if we all looked the same.

Rob

[JJuggle]

(well, in comparison to the suit clone brigade anyway).
The suits think the hippies (substitute everyone else) are clones. The hippies think the punks (substitute everyone else) are clones. The punks think the goths (substitute everyone else) are clones. The goths think the jocks (substitute everyone else) are clones. The jocks think the emos (substitute everyone else) are clones. The emos think the geeks (substitute everyone else) are clones. The geeks think the bikers (substitute everyone else) are clones. The bikers think the suburbanites (substitute everyone else) are clones. The suburbanites think the rednecks (substitute everyone else) are clones.

Very few of us aren't clones of some sort. In fact, the mere questioning of others personal choices, except in the purist form of genuine curiousity is a clonish question.

Sorry, Mike, can't help you with your piercing question as I know next to nothing about them. If you ever have a tattoo question, I can probably help a bit.

[bmemike]

Very few of us aren't clones of some sort.

And after all is said and done, the most important thing is to be yourself and do what you want for your own reasons.

If you're living your life for you, it doesn't matter if you do or don't look like other people because you'll be genuinely happy and more in touch with who you are as a person.

[JJuggle]

And after all is said and done, the most important thing is to be yourself and do what you want for your own reasons.

If you're living your life for you, it doesn't matter if you do or don't look like other people because you'll be genuinely happy and more in touch with who you are as a person.
Thanks for taking my comments to the next, positive, level. :)

[James_Potter]

Didn't Winnie the Pooh write a poem called Fiddly Task?
wait, no, that was Tiddly Pom.

Tiddly Pom
the more it snows
Tiddly Pom
the more it goes
Tiddly Pom
the more it goes
Tiddly Pom
on snowing!

[Mikefule]

Well, Naomi the visiting ethnologist/anthropologist!;)

Fashion's a funny thing. At least one regular here will tell you it's an example of a socially contructed reality.

We all position ourselves in relation to our own perception of how society is. We all have different ideas of how society is, because we all see it from different windows.

Some people try to blend in, fit the formula, be unobtrusive. Maybe they define success as ticking all the right boxes: smart house, smart car, respectable spouse, two nice kids, decent pension arrangements, foreign holiday each year. Others blend in in different ways: Burberry check, lots of gold, bleach blonde permatanned girlfriend...

Others position themselves on the margins. Some "over conform". They might be exceptionally respectable (very big smart house, very nice car, spouse is a JP, kids go to Oxbridge, etc.) or exceptionally main stream chav (hell of a lot of gold, totally pimped Subaru, etc.) or they might rebel, deliberately not conforming.

Whatever we decide about our appearance is influenced by what others wear, by the associations we have with that style of fashion. Those associations change with time, but they are nonetheless real. Jeans used to be workwear, then they became teen fashion, then they became high fashion, then they became retro... and so on.

I had my ear lobe pierced in about 1985/6. It was primarily because I wanted to wear an earring as part of my Morris costume, but partly an act of defiance. I was called in by the boss, instructed to remove it, I contacted the union, we had a debate, and I was allowed to keep the earring. That was worth something because I was the first male employee in my office to make the stand and win. At least 3 or 4 others had bottled out.

But that was ages ago. 20 years, and a single pierced lobe is now completely uncontroversial. I personally don't like facial piercings, but I think a single extra piercing in the ear looks OK. It irritates the boss a bit, which is good, and it just reminds me that I may have to play the company game all day, but that I am a person, not a number. (My company thinks I'm UROI13 - yes, really.)

But Naomi, you wrote

<<none at all have any facial piercings, ear-rings excepted.>>

Why except earrings? You display your own view of normality there - a prejudice of sorts.

[Naomi]

Well, Naomi the visiting ethnologist/anthropologist!;)

But Naomi, you wrote

<<none at all have any facial piercings, ear-rings excepted.>>

Why except earrings? You display your own view of normality there - a prejudice of sorts.


Possibly I do, although my intention was to pre-empt the question: "You mean to tell me that no-one even wears earrings?"



"visiting ethnologist/anthropologist" : Well it is certainly true that there is a wider range of interesting behaviour in the UK than in the Philippines, and interpreting it is a far greater challenge. :-)

Nao

[Wheel Rider]

As part of the midlife crisis, I've recently updated my once-rebellious 1985 pierced ear lobe with an extra hole at the top of the ear. And yesterday, I tried for the first time to put a ring in with a ball closure.

For my mid-life crisis, I bought and learned to ride a unicycle.

[unisteve]

I've decided to have my mid-life crisis while I still have my youth.

In the last couple years I have gotten seriously into unicycling, high-end computer building/customizing, and learning French.

I don't worry about whether or not I'm blending in-- I just concentrate on having a ****load more fun than anyone else around me. So far it seems to be working.

[Mikefule]

I've decided to have my mid-life crisis while I still have my youth.


Isn't that a quote from Socrates? If I remember correctly, the youth in question was Ionpirites, and was one of the warriors of Marmite.

[Mikefule]

For my mid-life crisis, I bought and learned to ride a unicycle.

Hey, I could try that!;)

I bought my first uni aged around 23, but then really got into it in a big way around 38.

I got into motorcycling aged 29, and after a brief hiatus for the last 2 years when I've been restricted to a twist 'n' go, I have a test ride on a proper bike booked for saturday. If I'm going to have the crisis anyway, I may as well enjoy it.:cool:

[cathwood]

That is an interesting answer, one I had not thought of, and probably one of the best I have heard to date. I think is it possible, and I personally would prefer to achieve, more dramatic change by making non permanent tweaks. As I am sure you realise, I am not against these permanent changes for others, but just don't really see the point or any advantages.

I asked the IQ question because I work in what might be described as a high IQ environment, with a fairly large sample of people. Very, very few seek to make any permanent modification, and none at all have any facial piercings, ear-rings excepted. A few have none-permanent away from the norm features: male ponytails etc. The age profile at work is practically spectrum wide. If I move outside of this environment, the incidence of permanent decorations and piercings increases something like tenfold. There are no explicit rules in my workplace, although neither would there be any sort of encouragement. I suspect extremes might be viewed more seriously though, and visible "features" might quietly affect promotions.
I can understand this, for were I myself seeking to employ customer facing staff, I would probably consider whether facial metalwork might have an effect on my business.


Thanks for the answers

Nao

I would imagine that this is very much related to your fashion question. Probably, for people in your environment it is 'fashion' not to have piercings etc.

Which brings me on to my answer to your question regarding fashion. From social psychology (not social constructionism because saying that all the time just gets boring) I think a couple of things are relevant. In group/out group studies that have shown that people will group together and favour that group with very little motivation. So people wear particular clothes to show that they are part of a group. And not just the obvious things like gang tatoos but also the even more obvious stuff recently such as a particular football team, or just being part of the 'young women who wear the latest fashion group' . So you see yourself in a certain way (ageing hippy, sporty spice and so on) and dress according to how the other people who obviously seem themselves in this way dress.

I think it's also related to people wanting to associate themselves with certain things (similar to above really) so they would like to see themselves as sports people and so wear the latest football gear, would like to associated themselves with the latest fashion models and so wear the latest fashion.

Possibly myself I would shout "sucker" from behind the wall, but I dare say I have my own 'fashion'. For instance, when I dress for work I dress in a way that I think psychologists 'should' dress.

Cathy

[Mikefule]

I think it's also related to people wanting to associate themselves with certain things


Yes, and dissociate themselves.

We can all react to social pressure by:

Conforming
Over-conforming
Ignoring
Reacting
Over reacting.


Even ignoring is a decision, and a social act, because we do it in the knowledge that others will judge us, and we will have to cope with the practical and social consequences of that judgement.

[phlegm]

Interesting. I like being able to "fit in" sometimes with "normal" society. Whether we like it or not, what we look like does matter because others respond to our appearance, and this in turn affects how we perceive the world. So I much prefer clothing as a means of self expression because it is easily changed.

However, self expression is rarely the motive for my choice of clothing. I consider clothing a tool for manipulating others' perceptions of me, and blending in with the crowd affords me the peace of not being bothered. It's not that I like certain fashions. I don't see my style of clothing as fitting in, per se. I dress a certain way to control what others think of me.

[DarkTom]

But all-in-all, the technique is simple in form - you drop one end of the ring into one of the "divitis" on the ball. Then, after lining up the second divit, just "push in" the ball until it pushes out the ring enough to drop the ring end into the divit.

(It really does sound a lot easier if you're not practiced at it)


I would agree with this method. Simple as it sounds, fiddly to do. You get the hang of it in the end!

I got one BCR and a ring with a ball on each end in the top of my left ear.

I think I got it pierced when I was 17ish (27 now), forgot they were there (under my hair!) for a few years, remembered them and got shiny new rings in when I got my hair cut a while back.

I just fancied having my ear pierced at the top, and then again a few years later. Never really known why, just fancied it so did it.

I had my nose pierced for about 6months (about 5 years ago), then a girlfriend I had came home with her lower lip pierced and it looked stupid, made me realise maybe my mother was right saying my nose looked stupid, so I took it out. Then forgot the ear-rings were there.

Pebbles used to have loads of metal in his face: nose, septum, eyebrows, lip,
he used to wear a fencing staple in his ear cos the holes lined up and he got it to fit.

I don't know why he used to wear all that, he doesn't have them now, you would have to ask him why. I'll tell him about this thread.

Hope you get the hang of your wee balls, mike!


T.

[Naomi]

Isn't that a quote from Socrates? If I remember correctly, the youth in question was Ionpirites, and was one of the warriors of Marmite.

Well, I don't remember him saying that one in the pub last week.

He did say "Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior." a pure gold quotation but not quite found in time for a recent thread.


Nao

[Unitik908]

i always put my brothers top of the ear earing in for him.. takes me like 20 seconds

Chase

[Mikefule]

He did say "Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior." a pure gold quotation but not quite found in time for a recent thread.


Can you give me a reference/source for that quotation, please? It seems at odds with most of what I've read of the big S. Genuinely interested.

[Naomi]

Can you give me a reference/source for that quotation, please? It seems at odds with most of what I've read of the big S. Genuinely interested.


I have failed so far with an actual reference, but web pages are there in plenty.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates

Probably has as much validity as I have found. Its comment on source is

"Socrates left no writings of his own, thus our awareness of his teachings comes primarily from a few ancient authors who referred to them in their own works." Which would seem to be an indication that they took their research seriously.

I found a few other web pages by either googling on the entire phrase, or on "Socrates quotations". The trouble with web quotation pages is that they often feed on themselves, rather than on external sources, but I did also hear the quote verbally a couple of years ago. No idea what his source was. Had I more time, I suspect I would quickly stumble upon more. If you continue the search I too would be interested in the result.

Nao

[GILD]

For the fiddly task, drape a bathtowel over the sink. That will stop the dropped ball from bouncing all over the place and disappearing down the drain.

I first got a piercing during a period in my life when I felt pretty distanced. It's a long story but it revolved around a friend's 'betrayal' of principles we spent many night talking about. At the time I needed something that would allow me to connect with myself and I needed it to be something physical. I also needed it to be something pretty personal that most other people wouldn't understand and might even be slightly freaked out by (this was a couple of years ago).

Only the first one really counted, the rest have just been for fun.

Then I got into tattooing. (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=108974)

[napalm]

I think Mikefule and Naomi have hit the nail on the head. Some people do these modifications to become part of, or be associated with a group with whom they feel some sort of connection (wether it be music, lifestyle etc). But at the same time they are distancing themselves from the masses by being part of that group. In a world where appearances are everything, such a prominent display as a facial piercing or tatoo instantly communicates to others something about who you are and with what you associate without actually having to verbally communicate.

I also relaise that people get tatoos for personal reasons (like the names of children/spouses) or because it represents something about them- like GILD's tatoo.

I have neither a tatoo or a piercing...yet, but i assume it is just a matter of time.
I rather like the idea of a stud underneath my bottom lip, and when i find a unicycle related symbol or a motto that resonates with me, possibly a tattoo.
mark

[GILD]

when i find a unicycle related symbol or a motto that resonates with me, possibly a tattoo.
I've been itching to have this one done.

[Mikefule]

"Socrates left no writings of his own, thus our awareness of his teachings comes primarily from a few ancient authors who referred to them in their own works." Which would seem to be an indication that they took their research seriously.


Socrates was very like Jesus. He had an ostensibly simple philosophy that was difficult to put into practice. He left no writings of his own. Most of what is "known" about him was written by his friends or supporters, who had an incentive to mythologise him, or by later writers who wanted to use his name to give credibility to their own opinions. He died by judicial murder, having refused the opportunity to escape, because of his principles. He was a sacrifice for the greater good, if you like.

Plato in particular was a friend and admirer of Socrates, and his earlier dialogues appear to be a sincere attempt to convey the gist of the Socratic method in an honest way. His later works, however, shamelessly atributed to Socrates ideas that were very clearly Plato's own.

Socrates' big idea was to question what we mean when we use a particular word or idea. His method was to invite a "victim" to answer a question, then chip away at the victim's certainty by asking him a series of questions which eventually "proved" that the victim had been wrong all along. Usually, the inquiry ended with a question mark - no conclusion had been reached, and only new problems exposed. That was why he accepted the oracle's word that he was "the wisest of men": because he was wise enough to know that he knew nothing for certain.

So the attributed quotation seems out of character with the wider teachings and method of the man. Also, Socrates lived in a world which was very male-dominated, where wives were regarded as primarily for breeding, and sexual pleasure for men (from the ruling elite) was primarily found with younger men. It seems strage that he should have made such a "proto-feminist" statement, and I strongly suspect it is a later atribution, in much the same way as the Chinese attribute so many proverbs and sayings to Confucius.

[Mikefule]

On the original subject of piercings: back handed compliment today at work.

My friend Kelly (about 20 years younger than I am) remarked, "That earring suits you. And the other one you're wearing - I like that - it's the same as Dan's wearing."

Dan = Daniela, not Daniel...:o

[Naomi]

So the attributed quotation seems out of character with the wider teachings and method of the man. Also, Socrates lived in a world which was very male-dominated, where wives were regarded as primarily for breeding, and sexual pleasure for men (from the ruling elite) was primarily found with younger men. It seems strage that he should have made such a "proto-feminist" statement, and I strongly suspect it is a later atribution, in much the same way as the Chinese attribute so many proverbs and sayings to Confucius.


As before, my finding dozens of examples of this quote on the weird weary web probably means little. One problem with the internet is its ability to proliferate myth so well, that it becomes fact to many readers. Attributing anything to someone who did not leave anything written down, all that time ago, is a little hit and miss of course, and especially so in the circumstances of Socrates and his friends.

However the quotation is not necessarily at odds with the times. Many quotations can cut with two edges. "I simply cannot tell you how gorgeous you look with that nail through your nose". So Socrates may well have said it, but as a warning.

"Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior...so, mark my words, if you don't do something about it now, and tread her heavily back into the mozaic, then, in a mere couple of millennia or so, the world with have to deal with Naomi, Cathwood and Germaine Greer."

Always keep a pinch of salt handy, ready to put on your Plato.


Nao

[Naomi]

"That earring suits you. And the other one you're wearing - I like that - it's the same as Dan's wearing."

Dan = Daniela, not Daniel...:o


Buy them as a pair next time, you will save money.

Nao