Gas Prices/Shortages

[bugman]

I'm not completely concerned about this, but it is certainly worth mentioning. Since the Hurricane gas prices have jumped from $2.45 to $3.09 The Governor of Georgia just made an edict that prices as of 6:00pm 8-31-05 are frozen, and can not be raised any further. Near me there are stations 400 feet apart that have prices from 2.89 to 3.09 for Regular Unleaded. There have been predictions that all pumps will be empty within 3-9 days.

I am sceptical, but time will tell.

Any of the other states having similiar situations? Price freezes?

[MERCYME]

Originally posted by bugman
I'm not completely concerned about this, but it is certainly worth mentioning. Since the Hurricane gas prices have jumped from $2.45 to $3.09 The Governor of Georgia just made an edict that prices as of 6:00pm 8-31-05 are frozen, and can not be raised any further. Near me there are stations 400 feet apart that have prices from 2.89 to 3.09 for Regular Unleaded. There have been predictions that all pumps will be empty within 3-9 days.

I am sceptical, but time will tell.

Any of the other states having similiar situations? Price freezes?
None for me, but the prices have been rising very fastly and I wouldn't be suprised if this would happen, luckily I have a unicycle and a bicycle.

[johnfoss]

I thought prices weren't supposed to go up until the prices paid by the gas stations went up, which shouldn't be until the "price of supply" went up. Does this always happen instantly when there's an interruption in part of the supply?

Granted, the hurricane disaster is of huge proportions and fuel will be in very short supply in that area until things can be brought back on line. But at the same time I would expect that to be separate from the price of gas shooting up in California, for example.

I hadn't heard of the price freeze in Georgia, or any others. I do expect fuels to be in short supply in that area of the country until things stabilize. I know people were unable to find gas in the stricken areas yesterday, which may be reason for steeper increases in price in that region of the country.

I haven't heard of a nationwide shortage approaching. Production has been cut down, but also some of the federal reserve of crude oil is being released, and the rest of the country is still making gas, as well as whatever we get from overseas. So I think any outages should be relatively brief. At least I hope so.

[skate4flip]

Here it went from $2.60 to $2.89. And my mom said there is some law thing here that you can only buy so much gas.

[Catboy]

2.55 to 3.15 here.

[bugman]

Apparently the issue is bigger than I thought. The pipelines that provide the fuel are down, so there is no supply. Delta Airlines is having Jet Fuel trucked in to keep their planes in the air. THis will surely cause them to go into bankruptcy.

My neighbor just came from Athens, Ga to Stone Mtn, Ga not one single gas station had fuel. He finally found one off the beaten path that had gas for $3.69 a gallon. Some places were charging as much as $6.00 a gallon which is what prompted the freeze. With everyone off the roads I may be able to uni to work.

[Fuego]

Meh.


Peak Oil:


http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0406/feature5/index.html?fs=www7.nationalgeographic.com

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4077802.stm

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

http://www.peakoil.com/sample/index.html

http://peakoil.org/

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=richard+heinberg+%22the+party%27s+over%22&btnG=Search

[DK]

I did my part by getting my first road bike (a steel brakeless fixed gear ) a couple days ago

[bugman]

I just called a Quik Trip up the street from me, to ask when they would have more gas, since they are completely out. They won't get anymore until Saturday or Sunday. This is the largest volume gas station near me. They were the last to run out inspite of the lowest price and longest lines. Guess I won't be screwing around and driving needlessly!:eek:

[napalm]

Hey guys,
In Australia at the moment even without a shit bit tornado/ hurrican thinggo, unleaded petrol is about $1.30 A LITRE! AAAAARGHGHGH.
Yeah my road b*ke is getting much more of a workout because i can not afford to keep my car with petrol in it (even though it is a tiny 4 cylinder hatchback). Apart from being a little more convienient, i have started to really appreciate how effective a good b*ke is for commuting

[forrestunifreak]

Originally posted by napalm
Hey guys,
In Australia at the moment even without a shit bit tornado/ hurrican thinggo, unleaded petrol is about $1.30 A LITRE! AAAAARGHGHGH.


a LITRE??! They sell it by the LITRE there? crazy...But whats the USD/AustrailianD difference?

[andrew_carter]

Originally posted by napalm
Hey guys,
In Australia at the moment even without a shit bit tornado/ hurrican thinggo, unleaded petrol is about $1.30 A LITRE! AAAAARGHGHGH.
Yeah my road b*ke is getting much more of a workout because i can not afford to keep my car with petrol in it (even though it is a tiny 4 cylinder hatchback). Apart from being a little more convienient, i have started to really appreciate how effective a good b*ke is for commuting Speak for yourself. :) In Brisbane it's really high at $1.10/L, luckily my little 250cc single cylinder bike is cheap enough to run that I can fill it with premium without even bothering to look at the price. :)

Andrew

[andrew_carter]

Originally posted by forrestunifreak
a LITRE??! They sell it by the LITRE there? crazy...But whats the USD/AustrailianD difference? $3.09 USD per gallon is equal to $1.08 AUD per Litre if I've done the correct converstions. Consider yourselves slightly lucky(er).

According to www.xe.com (a great site), today's conversion rates are 1 USD = 1.32455 AUD.

Andrew

[boo radley]

i blame the chinese for our high gas prices... and for the hurricane

[sevenasterisks]

(gets on soapbox)

It is stupid to lock the prices on gas. In a capitalist society prices are regulatd by supply and demand. If there is a short supply (like now) the prices should be increased untill the demand for gas (at the new price) is low enough that the supply meets the demand. If this price fluctuation is not allowed to happen, then many places will run out of gas, and the economy will sufferAND EVERYTHING WILL BE ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE and stuff

(gets off soapbox, looks around suspiciously, slinks away)

:)

[boo radley]

it's not like they're freezing prices across the country, just for that area. allowing market forces to operate freely is probably not a good idea right now in some places. the elasticity of demand is pretty low for gasoline, which is to say that it would take one hell of a price increase to cut demand back far enough to avoid running out. at over $3 per gallon i'm sure people in those areas are already keeping their driving to a minimum. bottom line is you're going to need gas no matter what you have to pay for it, so demand won't change much and there'll still be a shortage. besides, without more gas coming into the area they're just selling off what they already had, only at a much higher profit. allowing the stations to charge $6 per gallon or more is just gouging customers when they have much bigger problems to worry about

[GILD]

Originally posted by forrestunifreak
a LITRE??! They sell it by the LITRE there yeah
here too
we just had our 5th increase this year with the price going from R4-50 to just about R6-00 per liter
fortunately i don't do the 50km dialy commute anymore

[evil-nick]

Even way up Nawth in New Hampshire gas prices jumped 30 cents overnight.

Of course, the Europeans have been paying higher gas prices for years now. It annoys me, but after Sunday I'll be barely driving, since school is a short uni ride away :D

Oh, and in Lennoxville Quebec, it's been over $3.00 US a gallon all summer... Wonder if this will effect our prices there too...

[bugman]

Originally posted by evil-nick
Even way up Nawth in New Hampshire gas prices jumped 30 cents overnight.

Of course, the Europeans have been paying higher gas prices for years now. It annoys me, but after Sunday I'll be barely driving, since school is a short uni ride away :D

Oh, and in Lennoxville Quebec, it's been over $3.00 US a gallon all summer... Wonder if this will effect our prices there too...

Thank your government for your higher prices. It's all the extra taxes. The recent gas price explosion, has been fuelled by speculation and futures trading. There is no shortage, except here where they are having problems piping in the fuel.

[phil]

Originally posted by lots of whinging Yanks
Whine whine whine
Shut up you big girls. My last fill-up here in the UK was equivalent to US $6.4 per US gallon, and it's probably more than that near London. You lot might as well brush your teeth with the stuff it's so cheap! :rolleyes:

Phil

[bugman]

Originally posted by phil
Shut up you big girls. My last fill-up here in the UK was equivalent to US $6.4 per US gallon, and it's probably more than that near London. You lot might as well brush your teeth with the stuff it's so cheap! :rolleyes:

Phil

The extra taxes you pay for fuel probably pays for your free healthcare. So it isn't really apples/apples.

[fexnix]

in sweden we have 1.44 dollars per litre!

[DigitalDave]

Some local prices ... (http://chicagogasprices.com/)

A monthly graph of gas gouging (http://chicagogasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx)

[DigitalDave]

.

[sarah.miller]

Originally posted by bugman
The extra taxes you pay for fuel probably pays for your free healthcare. So it isn't really apples/apples.

Not exactly, its the national insurance we all (of working age) pay that partly (12%) pays for our (mainly) free health care. Thats the big difference between the US and UK systems. The remainder of the NHS costs are met from general taxation , thats income tax, VAT, business taxes etc.
General taxation will include fuel tax as a very small part of the total as fuel tax is not stictly ring fenced for transportation spending. Indeed it could be argued that the NHS should recieve some fuel tax moneys because so many health conditions are made worse by the pollutants in engine emisions and Road traffic accicdents cost so much to mop up.

Sarah

[ThisGuyIKnow]

Originally posted by forrestunifreak
a LITRE??! They sell it by the LITRE there? crazy...But whats the USD/AustrailianD difference?

If this is new information to you this further proves that you have no place posting in any sort of political discussion on these forums, especially when it comes to international issues.

[carsonpalooza]

here in NC the price in my area is around 2.57

[forrestunifreak]

It went from $2.44 to 2.77 here.

[DK]

gas is the highest i've ever seen it here... $3.29 for regular and $3.50 for premium

[Unitik908]

2.65 to 3.32 that was the most expensive gas station.. the avererage it like 3 25 ish

Chase

[MERCYME]

we went up from 2.95 to 3.35 in one hour......time to ride everywhere

[harper]

Gasoline prices in the US are an interesting study. Here is a good link to the BREAKDOWN OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS. (http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/crudeproduction.htm) This shows what the 42 US gallon barrel of crude turns into, which is some 44 US gallons of products. Take into consideration that crude hit $70US per barrel recently. Also take into consideration that it costs money and takes energy to either refine, distill, or crack these products and that it costs money to transport and distribute them. Gasoline in the US has been and still is artificially cheap. Why is this?

Klaas might be able to give a more realistic idea of what fuel prices should be in certain areas of the world. That is, if they were competitively priced which they clearly are not here.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally posted by harper
Gasoline in the US has been and still is artificially cheap. Why is this?

It's harder to explain how the CEOs and owners of oil companies manage to draw huge profits from a product they sell so cheap.

They draw huge profits, while Americans try to figure out how much cold they can endure this winter.

These things I cannot explain. Can Klaus or anyone help?

Is there any connection? That is, if oil magnates took a smaller profit, could Americans afford more home heat this winter?

Billy

[BillyTheMountain]

I just saw Bush on TV saying: "Americans shouldn't buy gas they don't need."

I hope none of you whiners are contributing to this gas price problem by buying gas you really don't need.

I didn't know this was happening. But if people listen to Bush, maybe this "problem" will go away.

Billy

[JJuggle]

Below is the exact quote. Perhaps he thinks Americans are stupid. Perhaps he was talking to himself out loud.

"Americans should be prudent in their use of energy during the course of the next few weeks. Don't buy gas if you don't need it."

[GILD]

come one, cut the guy some slack, in his own charmingly naive and downhome aw shucks kinda way he's just trying to say 'don't stockpile' without using the word stockpile cause that'll cause people to ...all together now...stockpile

this reminds me of the conundrum faced by the woodstock organisers about the supposedly 'bad' brown acid
and how wonderfully 'Wavy Gravy' cocked up that public announcement

[unicycle6869]

Ya gas prices suck up here in Minnesota too, at about $2.99 per gallon right now. I hate it especially since I have a 8 cylinder mustang that consumes a decent amount of gas, about 20miles per gallon if I don't floor it too often. But at least I don't have a stupid SUV that sucks down almost twice as much!! Guess I'm about in the middle of the average miles per gallon (maybe a slight lower than average?).

As much as the gas prices suck, I've heard many people say this is a good thing for several reasons. One so that Americans can cut back with the luxory of driving everywhere and anywhere even when not neccesary. Two that it's best for the enviroment if more people stop using their cars. Third to make Americans start to buy more efficient, smaller, hybred vehicles. And fourth to show how much Bush sucks. (OK, I made up the last one)

My only arguement about those is that yes some people can cut back but we don't have the public transportation like Europe and the UK have so much of us don't have a choice here. Now I would love it if this opened up the eyes of some political people to build more trains, buses, subways, and other public transportations so us Americans have more of a choice.

Cause right now I live about 25 miles from where I work with no buses, trains, etc. to get me there besides my car. So I have to drive. One thing I could do is to carpool which I already do with my girlfriend to cut the price in half but that's all I can do. Suppose I could carpool with a couple more people but that's easier said than done.

Bottom line is the gas prices suck but there's not a whole lot we can do about it.

[UniTyler]

Originally posted by unicycle6869
And fourth to show how much Bush sucks

Listen to the level 10er. Level 10er knows all.

[rob.northcott]

Originally posted by unicycle6869
we don't have the public transportation like Europe and the UK have so much of us don't have a choice here.
That's possibly true in the cities, but not so in more rural areas. It would take me nearly two hours to get to work (less than ten miles!) by bus. It takes me 20 minutes on the bicycle, an hour on the uni, or less than 15 minutes in the car. Petrol is more expensive here than in areas where there is better public transport (the oil companies claim it's because of the costs of getting it here), and it could be argued that we need to use it more because of the lack of (practical) public transport. That's why we all drive cars that do a decent mpg (both mine will do 45-47mpg on a long trip, 35 average, and they're over 30 years old). The longer the trip, the more practical public transport becomes, but for normal journeys of <20 miles it's hopeless.

I like cycling, so it doesn't really affect me that much personally, but I'm probably still compelled to drive a lot more than most city dwellers (who often choose to drive all their short trips anyway).

I know there are other reasons for the price of various things in different countries, but I can't agree that our public transport justifies the petrol prices here. The "PC" reason given by the government would be that they are trying to cut down petrol use because of pollution (which is rubbish because they supported change to unleaded petrol that is far more toxic due to its benzine content than the leaded stuff ever was, and there is still hardly any tax on aero fuel which causes far more pollution), but I suspect they just don't want to lose the huge tax income they make from it.

In general, looking from our point of view, it certainly seems that life is much cheaper in the US than almost anywhere else in the western world. Similarly in Scandinavia everything seems to be ridiculously expensive and average income isn't any higher than here - after being to Norway for a couple of holidays I can't see how anybody can afford to live there... any Scandinavian members got any remarks on that?

[john_childs]

Originally posted by JJuggle
Below is the exact quote. Perhaps he thinks Americans are stupid. Perhaps he was talking to himself out loud.

"Americans should be prudent in their use of energy during the course of the next few weeks. Don't buy gas if you don't need it."
I understood the line to mean for people not to hoard gas. I didn't have any problems comprehending that.

If people went and filled every container they had with extra gas just so they could have an extra 25 or 50 gallons on hand at home just in case, well that would cause some problems. I heard a CNN anchor talking about the statoins running out of gas in Atlanta about a day ago. He was wonder out loud whether he could fill up the 5 gallon can he uses for the lawn mower with extra gas. Hoarding would not be good on the whole.

It's not a question of wheter he thinks Americans are stupid. It's a question of asking people not to hoard when in reality they really want to haord if they could.

[DigitalDave]

His advisors are telling him this ...

... do you really think he's that smart ...? :D

[unicycle6869]

Originally posted by rob.northcott
That's possibly true in the cities, but not so in more rural areas. It would take me nearly two hours to get to work (less than ten miles!) by bus. It takes me 20 minutes on the bicycle, an hour on the uni, or less than 15 minutes in the car. Petrol is more expensive here than in areas where there is better public transport (the oil companies claim it's because of the costs of getting it here), and it could be argued that we need to use it more because of the lack of (practical) public transport. That's why we all drive cars that do a decent mpg (both mine will do 45-47mpg on a long trip, 35 average, and they're over 30 years old). The longer the trip, the more practical public transport becomes, but for normal journeys of <20 miles it's hopeless.

I like cycling, so it doesn't really affect me that much personally, but I'm probably still compelled to drive a lot more than most city dwellers (who often choose to drive all their short trips anyway).

I know there are other reasons for the price of various things in different countries, but I can't agree that our public transport justifies the petrol prices here. The "PC" reason given by the government would be that they are trying to cut down petrol use because of pollution (which is rubbish because they supported change to unleaded petrol that is far more toxic due to its benzine content than the leaded stuff ever was, and there is still hardly any tax on aero fuel which causes far more pollution), but I suspect they just don't want to lose the huge tax income they make from it.

In general, looking from our point of view, it certainly seems that life is much cheaper in the US than almost anywhere else in the western world. Similarly in Scandinavia everything seems to be ridiculously expensive and average income isn't any higher than here - after being to Norway for a couple of holidays I can't see how anybody can afford to live there... any Scandinavian members got any remarks on that?

You do make some good points. My only argument is that I do live within the suburbs of Minneapolis and so there should be public transportation that I can use. Guess my next step would be to sell my gas gusler and buy a more efficient car but I'm not quite willing to do that right now. Still having too much fun with the good ol pony (convertable mustang) but suppose I will eventually when I can't afford it....Guess there's a price to pay to have some fun in style!!

[Brian MacKenzie]

Originally posted by evil-nick
Even way up Nawth

I make note of how funny something is if I am forced to make an audible laugh, for an extended period of time, even when sitting alone in an empty house. (with 2 cats, perhaps asleep)


This is one of those

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally posted by john_childs
I understood the line to mean for people not to hoard gas. I didn't have any problems comprehending that.

If people went and filled every container they had with extra gas just so they could have an extra 25 or 50 gallons on hand at home just in case, well that would cause some problems. I heard a CNN anchor talking about the statoins running out of gas in Atlanta about a day ago. He was wonder out loud whether he could fill up the 5 gallon can he uses for the lawn mower with extra gas. Hoarding would not be good on the whole.

It's not a question of wheter he thinks Americans are stupid. It's a question of asking people not to hoard when in reality they really want to haord if they could.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JJuggle
Below is the exact quote. Perhaps he thinks Americans are stupid. Perhaps he was talking to himself out loud.

"Americans should be prudent in their use of energy during the course of the next few weeks. Don't buy gas if you don't need it."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I understood it to mean cancel your Labor Day vacation if it involves using gas. You could just as easily vacation at home.

Why wouldn't hoarding be good, if done safely? Isn't that why America has Oil Reserves???

Billy

[johnfoss]

Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
"Americans should be prudent in their use of energy during the course of the next few weeks. Don't buy gas if you don't need it."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understood it to mean cancel your Labor Day vacation if it involves using gas. You could just as easily vacation at home.If it meant making more gas available where it's *really* needed, yes, that's exactly what it could mean. Something wrong with that? Some of us are locked into plans that would be hard to get out of, while others were planning to hop in the car and just drive somewhere.

I plan to ride to work every day, if possible, until the shortages are over down there. I have never done this, and at my best normally only ridden every other day at the most. It should be a fun challenge, and good for me! Not all of us are in a situation where they can ride to work, but it works for those of us who are.
Why wouldn't hoarding be good, if done safely? Isn't that why America has Oil Reserves???Reserves are something you build up from normal supplies, without worsening a shortage. Hoarding in a shortage is selfish, and makes the problem worse. Sorry, got to side with the President on this one. Is your house un-flooded and un-destroyed? Cut back on some of your gas use. It's not that hard. Do it now, because now is when the problem is. Nobody planned it to be during this holiday. Suck it up.

I always laugh when Americans complain about high gas prices in international forums. Oops! Our gas has always been way cheaper than yours? By the liter, yet? Yes, most of the world uses the *metric* system. :)

Gas has always been in finite supply. Back in the 70s, when we had rising gas prices and bad fuel economy on cars, people figured it out. It takes the car companies a few years to respond to that sort of public need, due to the long product development cycle. Since the early 80s, we have drifted back to bigger and fatter cars, even though gas prices have continued to rise. All of a sudden we're waking up again. Hey, the gas my big truck uses is expensive! Yup. Look for the price of Hummers to plummet pretty soon...

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally posted by johnfoss
INobody planned it to be during this holiday. Suck it up.


There you go siding with Bush again. And you say it more clearly than Bush. You could be his spokesman, or speech writer!:D :D

[DigitalDave]

I learned a couple days ago the the old style pumps can't charge over 2.99 a gallon.

But, on todays news... these stations that have them,

can now charge by the HALF-gallon.

Read the signs carefully !

[DigitalDave]

gouging ...

this is 3 days old ... now,,, way over $3.00 now ...

[Gilby]

Gas is cheap here, only $0.74. :)

[sarah.miller]

Originally posted by unicycle6869
.Guess there's a price to pay to have some fun in style!!

I have to say that both Rob's cars have style AND are remarkably fuel effient. Go on Rob, show him the pictures.
Sarah

[rob.northcott]

Originally posted by sarah.miller
I have to say that both Rob's cars have style AND are remarkably fuel effient. Go on Rob, show him the pictures.
Sarah
:D I posted some pics in the vehicle gallery thread http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39182&perpage=15, they're on page 2.

I'll leave it at that - I can be a bit of an anorak on such things and don't want to start waffling about cars on a unicycle forum :o

Rob

[john_childs]

Originally posted by john_childs
I understood the line to mean for people not to hoard gas. I didn't have any problems comprehending that.

If people went and filled every container they had with extra gas just so they could have an extra 25 or 50 gallons on hand at home just in case, well that would cause some problems. I heard a CNN anchor talking about the statoins running out of gas in Atlanta about a day ago. He was wonder out loud whether he could fill up the 5 gallon can he uses for the lawn mower with extra gas. Hoarding would not be good on the whole.

It's not a question of wheter he thinks Americans are stupid. It's a question of asking people not to hoard when in reality they really want to haord if they could.
I just saw a local Seattle TV news segment on gas shortages at some stations here. The problem is with people filling up more often to keep ahead of the price increases and filling up whatever gas containers they have on hand. This creates a problem because gas stations are on allocation which means that the amount of gas they get is based on their past sales. When there is a run on gas due to hoarding they can run out. There isn't necessarily a shortage of gas up here, just people buying more than the station's regular allocation. A gas station manager interviewed said there is no shortage because they are getting full 100% or even 120% of their allocation. If there was a shortage the stations would only be getting a fraction of their allocation.

If we do get a gas shortage it would be interesting if we see retaliation against SUVs.

[DK]

http://www.carsrcoffins.com/images/sticker.gif
cars-r-coffins

ride yo bike/uni/horse/midget!

[unicycle6869]

Originally posted by Gilby
Gas is cheap here, only $0.74. :)

What???????
You must not be in MN?? Or $0.74/cup or something....

[unicycle6869]

Originally posted by sarah.miller
I have to say that both Rob's cars have style AND are remarkably fuel effient. Go on Rob, show him the pictures.
Sarah


They do have style and are remarkably fuel efficient that's for sure! But I bet he paid a lot of money for them cause they look like antiques! So my quote still stands that "there's a price to pay to have some fun in style!!"

[leo]

When I 1st heard about it took me very long to believe it...

But in Holland they use sunflower-oil and other non-fosil oils in stead of gas. Just straith from the supermarket!
However the customs are giving out penalties as the goverment misses taxes because of it, and they think the law forces to use environtment-unfriendly gas, and forbids the environtment-friendly bio-diesel.
Weird enough just accross the border in Germany they even sell it at the gas-station (with a small amount of conventional diesel mixed in it)!

Have a look at http://www.biodieselnow.com/