What would you pay to avoid a draft?

[BillyTheMountain]

The Army has a big shortfall in recruitment, and the National Guard cannot keep up with the need for new recruits.

The Leo Burnett Advertising Agency has just been given $350 million for a recruitment campaign that avoids any mention of Iraq.
(Is there anyone out there who could be fooled by such a campaign? Do you want them handling dangerous weapons?)

Should we keep piling on the money? Give better enlistment bonuses? Triple the advertising budget?

Just draft soldiers?

Or something else?????

Peace,

Billy

[James_Potter]

you know what I keep meaning to do, but keep forgetting...write a letter explaining my point of view on the war, which is that we shouldn't be there. then make three copies, keep one for myself, then send one to myself, then send one to some government official. that way, there will be a signed and dated document saying I'm morally against war of any kind, long before the draft starts. if it's gonna start, I still don't see that happening...but still....

[DK]

Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
The Army has a big shortfall in recruitment, and the National Guard cannot keep up with the need for new recruits.

The Leo Burnett Advertising Agency has just been given $350 million for a recruitment campaign that avoids any mention of Iraq.
(Is there anyone out there who could be fooled by such a campaign? Do you want them handling dangerous weapons?)

Should we keep piling on the money? Give better enlistment bonuses? Triple the advertising budget?

Just draft soldiers?

Or something else?????

Peace,

Billy

Ummmm, how about we just recurit all our great patriotic Governers', Senators', Represenatives', and even the President's kids, for a start. We all know since they love this country so much they shouldn't have a problem with sending their chilren off to iraq right away, right? Well that should be a start.
And then we can recruit inner city kids (they have no futre anyways ;)) by starting a campagin that makes the army look gansta. How about slogans and ideas such as "Go to Iraq so you can be bustin some caps in A-rabs," "Jiz-oin the Army so you can ghetto blast some bitches ands Ho's," or the favorite, "After your 10 year tour of duty, you take your machine gun back to the hood!" (Hey, when they kill each other, it lower's our welfare costs right?)

[Brian MacKenzie]

Originally posted by James_Potter
if it's gonna start, I still don't see that happening...but still....

I can see tyler out there with his knife collection now

[john_childs]

There is not going to be a draft. It isn't going to happen. No need to even bring it up unless you are intentionally propping up a straw man.

The solution to recruiting will be to increase pay, benefits, and other perks to get more people to volunteer. The military deserves more pay anyways.

[johnfoss]

Is $350 million supposed to be a lot? How does it compare to previous campaigns/budgets? Obviously it is probably more, but how much are we spending in Iraq/Afghanistan each day? How much is going to Haliburton and other overpaid private contractors? The soldiers deserve as much as we can afford, and they don't get it. Especially when it comes to benefits after their service.

[caw89]

Originally posted by Brian MacKenzie
I can see tyler out there with his knife collection now

Ahahaha!!! But I dont have to worry about being recruited, i cant, im the youngest male of my family ;)

[Wheel Rider]

Originally posted by caw89
Ahahaha!!! But I dont have to worry about being recruited, i cant, im the youngest male of my family ;)
Please explain your statement. What does your gender and position in the family have to do with getting recruited or drafted?

[bugman]

Originally posted by johnfoss
Is $350 million supposed to be a lot? How does it compare to previous campaigns/budgets? Obviously it is probably more, but how much are we spending in Iraq/Afghanistan each day? How much is going to Haliburton and other overpaid private contractors? The soldiers deserve as much as we can afford, and they don't get it. Especially when it comes to benefits after their service.

I agree. I was thinking the same thing when I read this. I want more benefits.:D

On an additional note, reenlistment/retention is at an all time high, so apparently the soldiers are proud of what they are doing.

[yoopers]

A military life or term is obviously not for everybody. There are all sorts of people in the world and we're all made differently. But I can say that my experience in the military completely changed my perspective in so many ways and on so many things.

No, I didn't get brainwashed, I think had my eyes opened. I came away from my duty with a healthy respect for what it takes to run a country and especially for what it takes to live the way we do here in America.

Bruce

[forrestunifreak]

No draft. period. As long as Bush is in office, at least. So why speculate about somthing that isnt going to happen?

[harper]

Can't you just shut a window to avoid a draft? Or is that draught?

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally posted by johnfoss
Is $350 million supposed to be a lot? How does it compare to previous campaigns/budgets? Obviously it is probably more, but how much are we spending in Iraq/Afghanistan each day? How much is going to Haliburton and other overpaid private contractors? The soldiers deserve as much as we can afford, and they don't get it. Especially when it comes to benefits after their service.

It's obviously not alot. Just an interesting slant on how to recruit without mentioning Iraq......

See, there are many hidden costs to Iraq, like the recruiting stations overhead, recruiter pay, auto, etc, the ad agencies, the increased staff at VA Hospitals and so forth, all part of the military budget.

Originally posted by john_childs
There is not going to be a draft. It isn't going to happen. No need to even bring it up unless you are intentionally propping up a straw man.

The solution to recruiting will be to increase pay, benefits, and other perks to get more people to volunteer. The military deserves more pay anyways.

Yes, of course. So the question is: How much more are you willing to PAY? Maybe just another 1% of your paychack will cover it. Not bad, huh?

Billy

[yoopers]

Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
the increased staff at VA Hospitals and so forth
(If everything goes right, there will be an increase in the engineering staff at the Iron Mountain VA Hospital soon. :))

(See, if you put a statement in parenthesis, it's alright to threadjack...right?)

[ThisGuyIKnow]

Originally posted by forrestunifreak
No draft. period. As long as Bush is in office, at least. So why speculate about somthing that isnt going to happen?

Well if Bush weren't in Office there would n't even need to be speculation about a draft. But you're right they probably won't resort to a draft, but that has nothing to do with Bush being in office, he's not exactly changing his policy to avoid the future necesity of a draft.

But to be so sure is foolish.

But you are part of that 36% so it's understandable why you would say such a thing.

[caw89]

Originally posted by Wheel Rider
Please explain your statement. What does your gender and position in the family have to do with getting recruited or drafted?

Well becasue I am the youngest male I cannot be drafted or forced into millitary action because i am need to carry out the family name.....

[Gilby]

Originally posted by caw89
Well becasue I am the youngest male I cannot be drafted or forced into millitary action because i am need to carry out the family name.....

I've never heard that... but if there were a draft they'd make new rules for it.

[evil-nick]

im the youngest male of my family

Ah, yer a "spare" ;) The eldest male inherits the estate, the rest either join the military or the clergy :D (Shows I paid attention during my English 113 and 218 classes ;))

[hillbilly]

Have you all forgotten 9/11? You have to get away from the liberal media filled with propaganda... I have friends and family serving in this war and consider them hero's and are thankful everyday for there service to keep us safe and protect others from dictators like sadam and his hatefilled regime. It sounds to me that there are many cowards out there that dont consider this country blessed enough to fight for its safety and honor.

[ThisGuyIKnow]

#1 The Media is NOT liberal

#2 This war has nothing to do with OUR safety.

[forrestunifreak]

Originally posted by ThisGuyIKnow
#1 The Media is NOT liberal

#2 This war has nothing to do with OUR safety.

#1 wrong

#2 WRONG

[JJuggle]

Originally posted by hillbilly
It sounds to me that there are many cowards out there that dont consider this country blessed enough to fight for its safety and honor. Welcome to the fray hillybilly. I would strongly recommend that you do not start name calling. You do not know anyone here personally and are not familiar with all our circumstances with respect to who has or doesn't have friends and family in the service abroad or otherwise. And furthermore if you truly believe that our - that is our United States - armed forces are in Iraq fighting for our freedom, then you can't possibly have any objection to anyone here exercising that freedom.

Name calling is easy. Reasoned argument is not so easy.

[GILD]

Originally mentioned earlier in the thread
On an additional note, reenlistment/retention is at an all time high so's unemployment
fancy that Originally mentioned earlier in the thread
so apparently the soldiers are proud of what they are doing. or they just don't have anything else to go to and for good or ill, the army is better than being unemployed

[ThisGuyIKnow]

Originally posted by forrestunifreak
#1 wrong

#2 WRONG

#1 The media is as liberal as, Fox News is fair and balanced*

#2 The Americans that are in any danger because of Iraq are the ones we sent over there

* please note, although Fox News uses the slogan "fair and balanced" they are NOT just like the media is NOT liberal.

[DK]

Originally posted by hillbilly
Have you all forgotten 9/11? You have to get away from the liberal media filled with propaganda... I have friends and family serving in this war and consider them hero's and are thankful everyday for there service to keep us safe and protect others from dictators like sadam and his hatefilled regime. It sounds to me that there are many cowards out there that dont consider this country blessed enough to fight for its safety and honor.

I agree completely! One of the thing s i hate most about america is how the liberal medis lies. Especially Fox News. they are the biggest treehugging corwards out there! Our Government has come so overrun with liberals, us republicans have won the last two presidentail elections! Not to metion theres a republican majority in Congress AND the Supreme Court! I mean, how many more hippies can trample our rights?!

By the way guys check out GodHatesAmerica.com (http://www.GodHatesAmerica.com) and GodHatesFags.com (http://www.GodHatesFags.com)

[caw89]

Originally posted by ThisGuyIKnow
#1 The media is as liberal as, Fox News is fair and balanced*

#2 The Americans that are in any danger because of Iraq are the ones we sent over there

* please note, although Fox News uses the slogan "fair and balanced" they are NOT just like the media is NOT liberal.

bullCOUGHshit

[ThisGuyIKnow]

Originally posted by caw89
bullCOUGHshit

Could you please post some evidence to support your claim

[ThisGuyIKnow]

Originally posted by DK
I agree completely! One of the thing s i hate most about america is how the liberal medis lies. Especially Fox News. they are the biggest treehugging corwards out there! Our Government has come so overrun with liberals, us republicans have won the last two presidentail elections! Not to metion theres a republican majority in Congress AND the Supreme Court! I mean, how many more hippies can trample our rights?!

By the way guys check out GodHatesAmerica.com (http://www.GodHatesAmerica.com) and GodHatesFags.com (http://www.GodHatesFags.com)

Your sarcasm is quite difficult to read, at least I hope you're sarcastic.

[john_childs]

Originally posted by ThisGuyIKnow
Could you please post some evidence to support your claim
Media Research Center (http://www.mediaresearch.org/) :D

[johnfoss]

Originally posted by ThisGuyIKnow
#1 The media is as liberal as, Fox News is fair and balanced*Media schmedia. The so-called liberals complain about the media too, they just don't call it the conservative media. I think a better name would be "The Inaccurate Media." The media, more in the broadcast area, likes to hype things. There is a tendency to focus on bad things, controversy, scandal, disasters, and suffering. Where these exist in only small amounts, they will be accentuated or exaggerated.

Case in point: We spent Sunday looking at CNN weather maps of Hurricane Katrina. The thing was almost all red! I looked at it and marveled at the amount of damage it would probably do. Later on I noticed in a wider-area weather map that there was a lot of red in the "normal" storms over other parts of the country. What did they do, turn up the color for this storm? And that's not even a good example, since that storm was bad enough without having to be exaggerated!

How come we TV watchers and radio listeners don't have much of a clue what's going on in Iraq these days, unless a bunch of Americans get killed? Isn't the country supposed to be being rebuilt and repaired? Is that too boring for us to know about? I'm pretty sure it's happening, but not sure why it doesn't get covered. Because it's not controversial enough.

If the media were as liberal as the complainers say, where are all the reports on the coverups, the low morale of soldiers, and all the other things the Bush administration is daily accused of?

That's my new rant on "the media." TV and radio news are treated like any other form of programming; as vehicles to sell advertising. To make your news more attractive than the news on the other station, you have to "dress it up." I hope this isn't true for newspapers too. It's nothing new, but it seems to me to be getting worse.
#2 This war has nothing to do with OUR safety. This war has to do with our selfishness. How much "potential" of a future threat to our nation is required to justify invading another nation? How many countries can we afford to rebuild? Better wait for the answer on that, as we don't know yet what it's going to cost.

If it all works out, it should be a major triumph for democracy and freedom. However the end will never justify the shaky reasons we had for going there in the first place. Did someone say 9/11?

Caw, still wondering if you were serious about being protected because you're the youngest. Doesn't the oldest son carry on the family name? Were past drafts actually set up that way? I never heard of it.

Anyway, I think you youngersters can be pretty sure of one thing: There will not be need to think of bringing back the draft while Bush is still in office. Doesn't that sound better? :)

[JJuggle]

Originally posted by john_childs
Media Research Center (http://www.mediaresearch.org/) :D Why how "fair and balanced" of you, John. :D

"The mission of the Media Research Center (http://www.mediaresearch.org/about/aboutwelcome.asp) is to bring balance and responsibility to the news media. Leaders of America's conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public's understanding of critical issues. On October 1, 1987, a group of young determined conservatives set out to not only prove - through sound scientific research - that liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values, but also to neutralize its impact on the American political scene. What they launched that fall is the now acclaimed --- Media Research Center (MRC)."

[forrestunifreak]

Originally posted by john_childs
Media Research Center (http://www.mediaresearch.org/) :D

Good one. I like this from that website:

Meanwhile over in Baghdad, Matt Lauer tried to get soldiers to admit to having low morale, only to be hit with this zinger from a U.S. Army captain: "Sir, if I got my news from the newspapers also, I’d be pretty depressed as well."

[forrestunifreak]

Originally posted by ThisGuyIKnow
#1 The media is as liberal as, Fox News is fair and balanced*

* please note, although Fox News uses the slogan "fair and balanced" they are NOT just like the media is NOT liberal.

I personally dont give a hoot if Fox is "balanced" as you see it. Only reason is so you can see the wacky liberals and the conservitives side by side to make the liberals look bad(wich they dont do enough of IMO)


Originally posted by ThisGuyIKnow
[B
#2 The Americans that are in any danger because of Iraq are the ones we sent over there
[/B]

Its not really "our fault" their over there, they CHOOSE to go over there. Its not like we shoved them off to their doom. And Iraq doesnt have anything to do with it, its the terrerists and murderers and evildoers hiding in Iraq that were after. If we didnt get rid of these 'bad guys' what-another 9-11??

[bugman]

Originally posted by GILD
so's unemployment
fancy that or they just don't have anything else to go to and for good or ill, the army is better than being unemployed

Want to back that up with facts? I think your wrong. Unemployment is not at an all time high. I just saw in the last two months we have added almost 500,000 jobs to the economy. Seems like more than enough positions available to hire anyone leaving the military.

I think I have a little more insight into why someone would reenlist. Many, many more of those soldiers are my friends and acquaintances than probably any other person posting on this board. I don't keep in touch with many friends form my active duty days, but I live in area that has a lot of military, and military families. Some of my friends have actually gone over as civilian contractors that were prior military, and I keep in touch with them through e-mail. So when I hear these arguments, and accusations, it just doesn't ring true with reality. No matter what the media tries to portray, or your own personal beliefs try to project.

If it was coming from the troops that they didn't believe in the mission, and they were ashamed of what they were doing, I too would find it difficult to support what was happening in Iraq. That isn't the case. So I will continue to support the troops, and their mission. I think what they are doing is positive for the people of Iraq, and hopefully will have a positive and lasting impact on the middle east. I think freedom is contageous, and hope that it will spread through out the middle east. That would be win/win. Only time can reveal the truth, unless Nostradomous is among the forum members.

[GILD]

Originally posted by bugman
Want to back that up with facts? I think your wrong. Unemployment is not at an all time high. I just saw in the last two months we have added almost 500,000 jobs to the economy. Seems like more than enough positions available to hire anyone leaving the military. i stand corrected (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)

i still wouldn't paint the picture nearly as rosy as 'more than enough' tho

[MrBoogiejuice]

its the terrerists and murderers and evildoers [I]hiding in Iraq that were after. If we didnt get rid of these 'bad guys' what-another 9-11?? [/B]

Bah! Why do people still confuse the 2 scenarios of September 11th and the invasion of Iraq? Iraq had nothing to do with September 11th. There were no Iraqi's involved in September 11th. Iraq was not a threat to the west previous to our invasion.

The invasion of Iraq has only increased our chances of being attacked by muslim extremists not decreased it as has been shown recently with the attacks on London and longer ago, Madrid.

Pleae people, think very carefully before you combine the word "Iraq" with the numbers 9/11 in a sentence.

[Loosemoose]

Originally posted by harper
Can't you just shut a window to avoid a draft? Or is that draught? I prefer chess, personally.

Loose.

[harper]

I would pay $1.50US to avoid having yoopers drafted. I would pay $10.00US to draft behind yoopers in a Coker race.

[zod]

First time enlistment is actually up from the spring slump and the US Army met enlistment goals in both June and July and will in August also, but the liberal media doesn't report on it.......imagine that. :rolleyes:

[yoopers]

Originally posted by harper
I would pay $1.50US to avoid having yoopers drafted. I would pay $10.00US to draft behind yoopers in a Coker race.
I'd be happy to break the wind for you while riding in a Coker race. :)

I couldn't be drafted anyway. I served my time and am not even on the inactive reserve list anymore. There, I just saved you $1.50. That should buy a bottle of mighty fine root beer.

[johnfoss]

Originally posted by MrBoogiejuice
Bah! Why do people still confuse the 2 scenarios of September 11th and the invasion of Iraq?You are right to correct people when they do this wrongly.
Iraq had nothing to do with September 11th. There were no Iraqi's involved in September 11th. Iraq was not a threat to the west previous to our invasion. Correct. Though you are likely to get more disagreement on the last one, I agree with all of those.
The invasion of Iraq has only increased our chances of being attacked by muslim extremists not decreased it as has been shown recently with the attacks on London and longer ago, Madrid. That depends on your definition of "our." Though The West has been attacked,"we" have not. Have we reduced our tendency of being attacked? Probably the opposite. Have we reduced the ability of our enemies to attack us here on our own soil? Arguable. But so far there have been none, which proves only that we've made it this far.

The cartoon was awesome, by the way.

So, much as I dislike the Bush administration and much of what they have done/are doing, I have to hope it all works out in the end. By working out, I guess I mean a functional constitution that all major groups of Iraqis can live with, and at least a loss of will to fight on the part of the insurgents/terrorists. That is, regardless of who they're fighting, be it non-Iraqi forces, or the Iraqis themselves.

[JJuggle]

Originally posted by zod
First time enlistment is actually up from the spring slump and the US Army met enlistment goals in both June and July and will in August also, but the liberal media doesn't report on it.......imagine that. :rolleyes: Zod,

When I executed this search:

enlist* and (army or military)

(the * instructs the search to find any word beginning "enlist" including, enlists, enlisted, etc) against the Washington Times, I get all the articles below for the past 3 months. The Washington Times is a very conservative, pro-Bush administration daily newspaper.

I don't see any highlighting of the first time enlistment numbers there.

=========================================
1. Abusing wounded heroes
The Washington Times, 31 August 2005, 408 words, (English)
The leftist protesters who gather every Friday night outside Walter Reed Medical Center are inspired by a radical agenda that few if any soldiers share. The protesters - organized by the radical antiwar group CodePink and others - have been ...
More Like This

2. [ INSIDE POLITICS ]
The Washington Times, 26 August 2005, 1081 words, (English)
Salt on wounds The Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, home to hundreds of wounded veterans from the war in Iraq, has been the target of weekly anti-war demonstrations since March, CNSNews.com reports.
More Like This

3. 'Wonderful time to be a soldier' ; Media muddies the message
The Washington Times, 26 August 2005, 890 words, (English)
I'm very proud to be a soldier of the U.S. Army because of the war on terror and our missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not alone either. I'm surrounded by soldiers who are re-enlisting and volunteering to go to units that are deploying. ...
More Like This

4. Resilient soldiers
The Washington Times, 26 August 2005, 611 words, (English)
The military's recruiting woes continue, but the retention numbers are encouraging. That's what year-to-date Pentagon figures on re-enlistments show, giving the lie to those who would demean the military with claims that the Iraq war is ...
More Like This

5. [ INSIDE POLITICS ]
The Washington Times, 24 August 2005, 1154 words, (English)
Fighting like liberals "Quick, someone call Howard Dean. It appears the right has stolen the left's playbook and is now using tactics liberals have used for decades," Brendan Miniter writes at www.OpinionJournal.com .
More Like This

6. U.S. pressures Taiwan to focus on defense policy ; Too reliant on American rescue
The Washington Times, 23 August 2005, 802 words, (English)
U.S. officials have been warning Taiwan that it must do more to prepare its own defense against a potential attack from China rather than rely largely on the United States - and that if it doesn't, the United States may feel less obligated ...
More Like This

7. U.S. opts to deal with leaders of coup
The Washington Times, 23 August 2005, 514 words, (English)
The United States has resumed dealings with Mauritania after a bloodless coup earlier this month ousted one of the main U.S. allies on the West African front of the global war on terror.
More Like This

8. Support troops training for war as rules change
The Washington Times, 17 August 2005, 522 words, (English)
"Don't stop! Keep moving!" Staff Sgt. Dennis Wisner shouts at four recruits racing for cover. They have been caught in the open by an enemy sniper. Firing and moving, they dash behind a small building.
More Like This

9. Border states legislate slavery end
The Washington Times, 13 August 2005, 1534 words, (English)
The abolition of slavery in the United States is chiefly associated with the Emancipation Proclamation, issued in its final form Jan. 1, 1863, and with the 13th Amendment, ratified on Dec. 6, 1865. There were a few local Union governments, ...
More Like This

10. Woes beyond oil-for-food
The Washington Times, 11 August 2005, 937 words, (English)
So, up at the United Nations, Benon Sevan is out and John Bolton is in. That's one small step for rooting out corruption; one giant leap for American interests. Mr. Sevan, the former head of the U.N.'s Oil-for-Food program, resigned his ...
More Like This

11. [ INSIDE POLITICS ]
The Washington Times, 10 August 2005, 1136 words, (English)
A bleak moment Remarks about Adolf Hitler often raise hackles. At a voting- rights march in Atlanta last weekend, singer Harry Belafonte was asked whether former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and current Secretary of State Condoleezza ...
More Like This

12. Joining the Foreign Legion
The Washington Times, 7 August 2005, 836 words, (English)
"Everyman thinks meanly of himself for nothaving been a soldier, or not having been at sea," Samuel Johnson said. We might add, as a generality just as glittering, that every man at one time or another thinks how great it would be to run ...
More Like This

13. A difficult year, a sweet reunion
The Washington Times, 29 July 2005, 866 words, (English)
As the guardsmen arrived at the armory in Manassas yesterday, Tina Addo couldn't help but dance and scream. "That's my son," she yelled as dozens of soldiers stepped off the buses and met their families whom most haven't seen since March ...
More Like This

14. Marion Kopsidas, 90, church leader
The Washington Times, 29 July 2005, 468 words, (English)
Marion Calomiris Kopsidas, a Greek-American church community leader and former president of the Salvation Army's Women's Auxiliary, died July 20 of pneumonia at Sibley Memorial Hospital in the District. She was 90.
More Like This

15. Guard recruits fall off steeply ; Troops placed on active duty
The Washington Times, 25 July 2005, 734 words, (English)
The National Guard is facing the deepest shortfalls in recruiting in more than a decade just when it is at its busiest since World War II, forcing commanders to rethink how they attract and keep part- time guardsmen.
More Like This

16. Peacemaking long after last shot ; Ex-Rebel's project honors one-time foes
The Washington Times, 23 July 2005, 2448 words, (English)
The quaint Martha's Vineyard town of Oak Bluffs features a unique monument near its town square. Erected to honor the "Union Soldier of the Grand Army of the Republic," it was envisioned by the editor of the local newspaper, Charles A. ...
More Like This

17. [ INSIDE THE BELTWAY ]
The Washington Times, 21 July 2005, 799 words, (English)
'Tar & Feather' "Incredibly predictable" is how Progress for America describes liberal special interest groups that started "their premeditated character assassination campaign within minutes of the nomination of Judge John G. Roberts ...
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18. La Belle France
The Washington Times, 17 July 2005, 747 words, (English)
Does America really need another book ("The French as churlish snobs living the good life," Sunday, July 10, Books B8) built on a cliche? The cliche in this case begins with the title of the ravings of Richard Chesnoff in his book titled ...
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19. Army's recruiting difficulties
The Washington Times, 16 July 2005, 591 words, (English)
Columnist Jack Kelly and retired Army Lt. Col. James Carafano, whom Mr. Kelly quotes, in his Commentary column ("Army recruiting turns up," July 9) do readers of The Washington Times a disservice by putting a happy face on what appears to ...
More Like This

continued....

[JJuggle]

....continued

20. Affirmative action 'father' dies ; 'Tireless' Fletcher advised four U.S. presidents
The Washington Times, 15 July 2005, 542 words, (English)
Arthur Fletcher, a Republican whose determined support of affirmative action brought the cause to national attention, died of a heart attack in his D.C. home Tuesday.
More Like This

21. Side by side
The Washington Times, 12 July 2005, 769 words, (English)
Does America really need another book built on a cliche ("The French as churlish snobs living the good life," Books, Sunday)? The cliche in this case begins with the title of the ravings of Richard Chesnoff in his book "The Arrogance of the ...
More Like This

22. Vets find glory, blame in Egypt ; Fighters from both sides of Civil War join foreign army
The Washington Times, 9 July 2005, 982 words, (English)
A group of American and Egyptian officials gathered in a Cairo cemetery Nov. 6, 2000, to honor a long-forgotten veteran, Maj. Erasmus Sparrow Purdy.
More Like This

23. Edmond P. Abood, 78, Army colonel
The Washington Times, 6 July 2005, 492 words, (English)
Edmond P. Abood, a retired Army colonel who served 37 years as an airborne infantry officer, died June 19 of cancer while visiting his sister in Boca Raton, Fla. He was 78.
More Like This

24. Brothers in arms reunited ; A wounded soldier sees duty done
The Washington Times, 4 July 2005, 2359 words, (English)
FORT LEONARD WOOD, Mo. Ten months after a roadside bomb cut short his deployment to Iraq, Army Spc. Steven Moore sat alone in his car and finally let himself cry.
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25. Combat zone for faith
The Washington Times, 3 July 2005, 1006 words, (English)
Stamping out evangelical Christian activity at the Air Force Academy could erode combat will, retention, and enlistments and violate the intent of the First Amendment to the Constitution.
More Like This

26. ALEXANDRIA: History a mirror of U.S. past ; City, residents helped chart nation's course
The Washington Times, 30 June 2005, 2756 words, (English)
The early morning bustle at Alexandria's Market Square has already become a full crush by 8 a.m., a time when many Washingtonians are still asleep or lingering over their coffee. Which vendor has the freshest strawberries, the tastiest ...
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27. The Vietnam syndrome
The Washington Times, 21 June 2005, 933 words, (English)
Admittedly stretched very thin, the U.S. military has the courage, the stamina and the weapons to see the Iraq insurgency through, however long it takes.
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28. My Dad, my hero
The Washington Times, 19 June 2005, 594 words, (English)
According to my Dad's military records, he left school in eighth grade. As you might expect, he had a hard life. It was a good life, though. He was born into the Great Depression. He knew nothing of the dismal science of economics but ...
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29. Enlistment tradeoff?
The Washington Times, 19 June 2005, 855 words, (English)
The Army is getting desperate. Having fallen 25 percent short of already reduced recruiting goals last month, it is raising enlistment bonuses to $40,000 in some cases and lowering standards to accept and retain soldiers who would have been ...
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30. Future soldiers take oath to serve ; Enlist on Flag Day, Army birthday
The Washington Times, 15 June 2005, 585 words, (English)
Jimmie Tate, 17, stood outside the Pentagon yesterday with 26 others to make one of the most serious commitments he will probably make in his life: joining the military.
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31. [ TAKING NAMES ]
The Washington Times, 13 June 2005, 531 words, (English)
Brad's crusade Actor Brad Pitt said yesterday he felt uncomfortable using his superstar status to draw attention to Africa's troubles in a high profile TV interview last week, but insisted the United States must take the lead in global ...
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32. Military records to show how luminaries served ; National Archives to allow public access
The Washington Times, 7 June 2005, 516 words, (English)
Psychedelic-guitar man Jimi Hendrix, soul singer Marvin Gaye, Desi "Ricky Ricardo" Arnaz and actor Steve McQueen, newsman Edward R. Murrow, "Dragnet" detective Jack Webb - military veterans all.
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33. Kaine recruits Daschle to counter attack ad
The Washington Times, 6 June 2005, 1838 words, (English)
Virginia gubernatorial candidate Timothy M. Kaine has enlisted the help of former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle. Mr. Daschle, the South Dakota Democrat who was defeated in November after 18 years in the Senate, is appealing to ...
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34. Guantanamo guards tell of prisoner attack
The Washington Times, 6 June 2005, 935 words, (English)
U.S. NAVAL BASE GUANTANAMO BAY, Cuba Army "block guards" were making their daily walk through the stifling heat of the cellblocks inside the barbed wired camp here in late May.
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35. Threats to stability in Afghanistan
The Washington Times, 5 June 2005, 779 words, (English)
In an era of touted, pseudo- and narco-democracies, Afghanistan stands ahead of the rest. Few can dispute that Vladimir Putin's Russia, other Central Asian and many former Soviet Bloc countries calling themselves "democracies" are shams. ...
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36. Pentagon delays figures on recruits
The Washington Times, 2 June 2005, 263 words, (English)
The Pentagon, hard-pressed to meet recruiting goals for the all- volunteer armed forces, yesterday delayed announcing enlistment numbers for May until June 10.
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[burnitalltwice]

I think what they are doing is positive for the people of Iraq, and hopefully will have a positive and lasting impact on the middle east. I think freedom is contageous, and hope that it will spread through out the middle east. That would be win/win.

Thats the problem, all of these people think that what they are doing is good for iraq, we dont know. And yes helping them with government seems good esp after the state they were in but it seems that all were doing is keeping our hand in the pickle jar. I hope freedom will spread aswell but it doesnt work that easily people have to fight for freedom the a dictator isnt gonna just let all of his power slip away from him. There is no wining in the middle east, you cannot win a war period, as soon as a soldier dies it cant be a win. victory maybe but not a win.

[GILD]

Originally posted by JJuggle
I don't see any highlighting of the first time enlistment numbers there.zing

i'm sure Zod will be along shortly to let us know what he based his claims on

[GILD]

Originally posted by GILD
i stand corrected (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)

i still wouldn't paint the picture nearly as rosy as 'more than enough' tho some more interesting (http://uncapitalist.com/blog/?itemid=490) reading (http://norbizness.com/archives/001253.html) on the employment issue

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally posted by GILD
some more interesting (http://uncapitalist.com/blog/?itemid=490) reading (http://norbizness.com/archives/001253.html) on the employment issue

Persons Not in the Labor Force (Household Survey Data)

In August, 1.6 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force, about the same as a year earlier. These individuals wanted and were available to work and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed, however, because they did not actively
search for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey. There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August, down from 534,000 a year earlier. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, were not currently looking for
work specifically because they believed no jobs were available for them. The other 1.2 million persons marginally attached to the labor force had not searched for work for reasons such as school attendance or family responsibilities. (See table A-13.)

There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August
There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August
There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August

With numbers like these, one has to wonder why the Army has to pay a Mad Ave Ad Agency to recruit......

Billy

[bugman]

Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
Persons Not in the Labor Force (Household Survey Data)

In August, 1.6 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force, about the same as a year earlier. These individuals wanted and were available to work and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed, however, because they did not actively
search for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey. There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August, down from 534,000 a year earlier. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, were not currently looking for
work specifically because they believed no jobs were available for them. The other 1.2 million persons marginally attached to the labor force had not searched for work for reasons such as school attendance or family responsibilities. (See table A-13.)

There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August
There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August
There were 384,000 discouraged workers in August

With numbers like these, one has to wonder why the Army has to pay a Mad Ave Ad Agency to recruit......

Billy

In every society you have people who say they want to work, but don't really want to work. So the idea that there are that many is not really suprising.

[Brian MacKenzie]

Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
These individuals wanted and were available to work

......

they did not actively search for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey.

[entropy]

Originally posted by caw89
Well becasue I am the youngest male I cannot be drafted or forced into millitary action because i am need to carry out the family name.....

Sorry, this is wrong. Better do your research. This is the agency that would be in charge of drafting US men between the ages of 18 and 26:

http://www.sss.gov/

And here's their response to everyone that believes the "family name" myth:

http://www.sss.gov/FSsurviv.htm

Also not allowed: college deferments.

I'd suggest all US citizens read the "what happens in a draft" writeup just to be up on the information. It's really informative: http://www.sss.gov/WHHAP.HTM

I too doubt that a draft will happen. But you can never be 100% certain, and it never hurts to be informed.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally posted by bugman
In every society you have people who say they want to work, but don't really want to work. So the idea that there are that many is not really suprising.

Bugman,

Why would they do that? How do you know? Maybe Americans are more likely to lie about this, due to that damn work ethic.

Do you really want to work, Bugman? I got some work for you, but no money for you. Do you still really want to work? No? I guess you didn't really want to work so badly now, did you?

Billy

[BillyTheMountain]

At first it may seem ironic that People who apparently wanted work did not look for 4 weeks.

I think that's what it means to be "discouraged." You don't have the courage to try.

[bugman]

Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
Bugman,

Why would they do that? How do you know? Maybe Americans are more likely to lie about this, due to that damn work ethic.

Do you really want to work, Bugman? I got some work for you, but no money for you. Do you still really want to work? No? I guess you didn't really want to work so badly now, did you?

Billy

Billy, We have many people in the Atlanta area that have the "Will work for food signs" these guys are fixtures. They have not only not searched for work, they actively avoid it.

When I had a business that occasionally needed people for a week or less for a specific job, I would try to hire these guys. (During the Clinton admin) I started at $8 an hour and quit trying at $15 an hour. One guy laughed at me and said he made more if he stayed there on the corner.

I worked for a couple of years on a street ministry, helping feed and clothe homeless. One day I overheard a couple of healthy strapping youts say that as long as there was free food they wood never work a day in there life.

I have had day laborers walk off the job (when I was 17) when it started raining.

There are boat loads of people who have no interest in working if there is an easier way to get by. I'm not one of them. As for working for no pay, I do it all the time. It's called volunteering.

[johnfoss]

Originally posted by BillyTheMountain
Why would they do that?I'm not sure of the mechanics of why, but it's definitely true. Do you not believe the truth of it? I can name several people I know (but that you don't) that are able to work, but aren't lifting a finger to do so. The first word that comes to mind is lazy, but I'm sure there are many other factors, and they differ from person to person.
I got some work for you, but no money for you. Do you still really want to work? No? I guess you didn't really want to work so badly now, did you?Many people will work rather than not work, even for little or no pay. I would consider them more motivated. An example of a motivated person is an unpaid intern, gaining experience for a future paying job.
I think that's what it means to be "discouraged." You don't have the courage to try. In this case, that sounds exactly right. If they were more motivated, they would accept work doing something else, at least until the "right" jobs became available.

I think a lot of this is about to happen in the hurricane-stricken area. A million or so people out of work! Hopefully our govt. can set up some kind of work programs where they can help in the salvage and rebuilding processes. Labor unions will no doubt fight against this, of course...

Yes, but some people simply won't work. When you subtract the mentally ill, the disabled (both physically and developmentally) and others that want to but for some reason can't, you are still left with a large pool of people who have nothing stopping them, but aren't trying to get out and earn a paycheck.

What were we talking about?

Oh yeah. Hopefully our President will focus a little more attention on the hurricane area than Iraq for a while. We have plenty of resources over there, and still not enough in our domestic disaster area.

[bugman]

It is true that there are going to be a lot of people out of work, and there will be a lot of opportunity for those people if they are willing to do something that may be different than what the have done in the past. Especially until the area they are from is rebuilt. Then hopefully they will be able to find jobs doing things they were previously trained to do. Or maybe they will do something they enjoy more.

[DK]

Originally posted by bugman
[B]Billy, We have many people in the Atlanta area that have the "Will work for food signs" these guys are fixtures. They have not only not searched for work, they actively avoid it.

When I had a business that occasionally needed people for a week or less for a specific job, I would try to hire these guys. (During the Clinton admin) I started at $8 an hour and quit trying at $15 an hour. One guy laughed at me and said he made more if he stayed there on the corner.
and so on[B]

are you saying panhandling isn't a job?