Headphones

[john_childs]

Originally posted by GILD

and buy him some decent headphones
;)

john, i'll c your hd 580s and raise u some hd 600s
d:) b

we need a headphone smiley!
Just moving this out of Jagur's thread.

I like the d:)b headphone smiley.

I do have the HD 600's (I got them when they were on sale and they weren't much more than the 580's). I also have a pair of HD 580's on the shelf because I was afraid Sennheiser was going to discontinue the 580's when the HD 590 came out. I didn't want to risk not being able to have my favorite headphones 5 or 10 years from now if Sennheiser decided to discontinue them. My hearing isn't good enough to hear the difference between the 580's and 600's. The extra quality of the 600's is mostly lost on me, but they do look better.

The first time I heard the 580/600 I couldn't believe how much of the music I had been missing with my old Sony headphones. I like classical music (along with rock, metal, some punk, and almost anything but Tesh, rap, and country) and the difference was astounding. There was more depth to the sound, I could better hear individual instruments and instrument sections, parts that were muddy were now clear, I could hear players lifting their fingers off the strings. Wow!

I also have the Grado SR60's for my portable CD player and for plugging into the computer. The portable and the computer can't drive the Sennheiser headphones adequately so I use the Grados. I got my brother the Grado SR225's for Christmas three years ago along with the Sennheiser 580's. He has a basement studio so good headphones come in useful. I love the Grado 225's and 325's for rock music. I'm gonna have to get the 225's or 325's for myself one of these days. I visited my brother over Christmas this year and got to listen to the 225's and that really made me want them again.

Anyone looking for some $70 or $100 headphones should check out the Grado SR60's or SR80's. Anyone willing to spend $200 on headphones should check out the Sennheiser 580's or the Grado SR 225's. Headphones don't get much better than these.

I might have to change my avatar to a pair of headphones.
d:)b

[Checkernuts]

I was at a show (Flogging Molly and Andrew WK) not too long ago and saw the sound guy smash a some Grado 225's it was quite a waste...

[GILD]

there comes a time when all u can do is put on a good recording of vivaldi's four seasons, slip on some decent headphones and lay back, with not a worry in this cruel, cruel world
(ditto deep purple's 'child in time', zeppelins 'stairway to heaven' the doors' 'the end', the list continues...)

i have a running 'argument' with a friend of mine regarding headphones vs speakers
he's a confirmed speaker nut and maintains that when u manage to create that football sized space of optimum sound in the middle of an extremely accoustically friendly room, it beats tha pants of any headphone u can buy
i can't really argue with him as i've only really experienced it once or twice and have never been able to lie down and totally relax with the music
if u compare the cost and effort of setting up a system like that to the cost and ease of plugging in a pair of senni's, there is no comparison i'm afraid
the salesman who introduced me to the hd 600s (i was quite a comitted hd 250 linear fan at the time) did so with the intro 'and these are for the serious audiophile...'

i guess i have a label now

d:Db

[jagur]

anyone who loves headphones,needs to listen to Negativeland's The Big 10-8 Place.

[gluteous maximus]

Originally posted by jagur
anyone who loves headphones,needs to listen to Negativeland's The Big 10-8 Place.

I'm still looking for a copy of the whole thing; all the way from "Very Stupid" to the end, and including "Four Fingers", "Clowns and Ballerinas"... I want the works.

Found a few bits and snatches on Kazaa, but nothing integral or complete.

Help?

I have headphones.

[jagur]

you got to go out of the house to a record store and order it,i hope its still available.i think it was on SST Records but it was around that time that they got booted from that label.

Escape from noise is good on phones too.

[phil]

Originally posted by gluteous maximus
Found a few bits and snatches on Kazaa, but nothing integral or complete.

But of course if you're looking for something that sounds good with headphones, an mp3 from kazaa isn't going to help... you can tell the difference between CD and a 160kbps mp3 with my sony headphones, let alone a nasty kazaa rip on dead posh headphones.

[gluteous maximus]

Phil,

Please define "dead posh headphones".

We just don't hear "posh" over here anymore since the Spice Girls dis"band"ed.

Does "posh" mean the same in both cases?

Is "Dead Posh Spice" better or worse or the same as "Posh Spice"?

Is plain old "Spice" the best of the three, or do I need Grado 225 Spice?

Do you have a copy of "The Big 10-8 Place" album, or not?

[phil]

Please define "dead posh headphones".
Ones that are much more expensive than mine...

Does "posh" mean the same in both cases?
"Posh" = "Really Rather Nice" or something like that...

Is "Dead Posh Spice" better or worse or the same as "Posh Spice"?
Depends where the significant pause is. "Dead Posh <pause> Spice" is probably very good if you're a spice connosieur. "Dead <pause> Posh Spice" is very good if you like your music musical.

Is plain old "Spice" the best of the three, or do I need Grado 225 Spice?
Whut?

Do you have a copy of "The Big 10-8 Place" album, or not?
No...

Phil, just me

[john_childs]

Originally posted by Checkernuts
I was at a show (Flogging Molly and Andrew WK) not too long ago and saw the sound guy smash a some Grado 225's it was quite a waste...
That is a waste. I would have gladly donated my Sony headphones if he needed to work out some aggressions on a pair of headphones.

But Grados can actually take a fair bit of abuse. The ear cans are designed to spin around and lay flat. You can even pull the ear cans off the headband without greatly harming the headphone. You'd have to smash them hard enough to actually crack the ear cans or yank out the cables to damage them.

[john_childs]

Originally posted by GILD
i have a running 'argument' with a friend of mine regarding headphones vs speakers
he's a confirmed speaker nut and maintains that when u manage to create that football sized space of optimum sound in the middle of an extremely accoustically friendly room, it beats tha pants of any headphone u can buy
Headphones are definitely the less expensive way to go for high quality sound. Plus headphones let you play music late at night in an apartment without disturbing the neighbors.

A stereo system with speakers that matches the Sennheisers or Grados would be enormously expensive. Plus you need a proper room to put the speakers in. When I was in college I special ordered my classical CDs from a local stereo store that carried some high end equipment (this was before the days of the internet where you can now order any CD you want from Amazon). They were nicer than the local record stores and I got to sample some music on some very nice audio equipment. The best system there that I heard was B&W Matrix 801 series 2 speakers (about $4000 a pair at the time), they were bi-amped with two huge customized mono apms for the bass and a big Aragon amp for the midrange and tweeters. All told it was well over $10 grand (USD) worth of equipment especially after adding in the CD player, pre-amp, cables and other bits. It sounded fantastic. I haven't heard a stereo system that good since. Every bit and possibly even more detailed than the Sennheisers. A system like that is a better experience than the Sennheisers, but wow! I can't be spending that much on a stereo and I don't have a proper room to put a system like that. I'll stick to the Sennheisers and Grados.

[john_childs]

Originally posted by jagur
anyone who loves headphones,needs to listen to Negativeland's The Big 10-8 Place.
What is it about that album that makes it good for headphones?

I'm looking for new music to listen to. I'm boycotting the labels that are putting copy protection on CDs so now I have to look for the smaller labels that aren't hell-bent to screw their customers. I bought a Puddle of Mudd CD a month ago and the damn thing had copy protection on it. Two tracks won't play on my CDR computer drive. In fact it locked up Windows 2000 (updating the CDR firmware fixed that problem). So screw them. I'm not going to buy their "music disks". I'll find labels that don't **** their customers.

BTW, the copy protection didn't have any effect on the DVD drive in my computer. I was able to make a perfect rip of the CD by using the DVD drive instead of the CDR drive. So they managed to piss me off completely and the copy protection won't even stop the CD from getting ripped. Those labels are absolutely determined to screw themselves.

[Scott Stephens]

OT, I bought the Puddle of Mud CD about a month ago as well.
I dont like it, only track six good. It sounds like creed to me, and all creed songs sound the same.

MY OT opinion

Scott

[jagur]

Originally posted by john_childs

What is it about that album that makes it good for headphones?mostly the non sense,but its the way they do the non sense thats key.most of what Negativeland does isnt really music at all.it sort of sound art and razor tape cut ups in the tens of millions.

the album "Free" is all music.some albums are half in half.most are best discribed as a colouge of sound with a plot.all of them are made for headphones though.

www.negativland.com

[GILD]

'POSH' is an accronym for Port Out, Starboard Home
this was the travelling arrangement, on one of the old steamers, that would give a patron the best cabin
i cant remember if this would mean in the shade or in the sun
i think it reffered to sailing from southhampton but i wouldn't put money on it

an interesting disk to listen to on phones, if it's your kinda thing, is the recording that's available of the only time the orchestras of count basie and duke ellington recorded together
it is mixed in a rather unusual way, placing the one orchestra in the left channel and the other one in the right
this allows u to listen to lil' individual instrument 'duels' and adds an interesting element to this very historic recording

i must concur on the puddle of mud/creed comments
something worth listening to (if u haven't yet) and if it's your kinda thing, is anything by NINE INCH NAILS
trent reznor mentioned on several occasions that he did the recordings with headphone listening in mind

what is your favourite piece of headphone music?

[john_childs]

Originally posted by GILD
what is your favourite piece of headphone music?
I have never picked a favorite piece for headphone listening. I do enjoy listening to full orchestra pieces like Shostakovich's Symphony No. 8 on headphones. I almost have to enjoy it on headphones because a full orchestra piece like that on speakers in an apartment doesn't work very well. I also like Bach organ music, and organ music can work surprisingly well on headphones.

I have found, much to my dismay, that some Queen songs don't work well on headphones. Queen sometimes pans the music real hard from one speaker to the next and then back again. That works OK on speakers, but on headphones it leaves each ear fealing like it was just sucked into the vacuum of space every time the music pans away. It is unfortunate because I really like Queen's music.

Nine Inch Nails is on my do not buy list because they go through Geffen/Universal which is the same bunch of yahoos that put the copy protection on the Puddle of Mudd CD.

I'm still not sure if I'm going to relax my do not buy from the big 5 stance enough to let me buy used older CDs. I might, but it would feel like a sell out. I'd have to be careful to make sure that only got CDs made in 2001 and older to avoid getting a copy protected disk.

There was an interesting article and comments on Slashdot on Friday about how to find or discover new music on the web. Some good links to some interesting music sites in there.
<http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/03/01/03/223240.shtml?tid=141>

[phil]

Originally posted by Scott Stephens
OT, I bought the Puddle of Mud CD about a month ago as well. I dont like it, only track six good. It sounds like creed to me, and all creed songs sound the same.

Argh! More people who don't like Blurry... why not?! It's great...

Phil, just me

[nb]

Originally posted by GILD
'POSH' is an accronym for Port Out, Starboard Home
this was the travelling arrangement, on one of the old steamers, that would give a patron the best cabin
i cant remember if this would mean in the shade or in the sun
i think it reffered to sailing from southhampton but i wouldn't put money on it

<Snip>


This is generally agreed to be apocryphal.

http://www.wordorigins.org/errors.htm

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/meanings/287800.html

[GILD]

>This is generally agreed to be apocryphal.

u mean i went to all the trouble of remembering that for all these years and now u come and tell me (in a very nice multisyllabled way) that it's BS?!?

:mad:

john, would u care to explain your 'do not buy' policy in a bit more detail?
i think i have the basic drift of it, i'm curious to find out about your feelings ref protecting the artists' right to earn a living from their music and the role the labels play in making sure it does/does not happen

i've allways had respect for reznor as one of the musos who've struck me as willing to 'go out of his way' to give the fans value for money
a good example is the 'closer' single that contains an impressive number of remixes of the track, all mixed together for just more than an hour of the 'closer concierto' if u will
and this sold (at his insistence) as a normal single, at normal single price

[nb]

Originally posted by GILD
>This is generally agreed to be apocryphal.

u mean i went to all the trouble of remembering that for all these years and now u come and tell me (in a very nice multisyllabled way) that it's BS?!?

:mad:


Now, not only will you have to remeber it, you will also have to remeber it is <quote> BS </quote>

More wasted brainspace:D

[john_childs]

Originally posted by GILD
>
john, would u care to explain your 'do not buy' policy in a bit more detail?

My issue is with the Big 5 in the RIAA (Sony, Time-Warner, Universal & Polygram, BMG, and EMI). From what I've been reading they are intent on making all of their releases in the near future copy protected in some way. It is unfortunate that some artists will get caught in the crossfire of my little boycott, but that's the way it is in these things. The artists who have signed with labels that aren't planning on copy protecting their CDs will get more business from me, the artists who have signed with labels that are copy protecting their CDs will have to decide if they will stay with that label or move to a label that is more consumer friendly.

I don't agree with or support piracy. I work in the software industry so piracy can have an effect on my livelihood too. I have zero pirated software on my computer. Everything that I have installed is legit and has been for as long as I can remember. I think I may have had one or two pirated games on my Apple ][+ computer, but the games that I actually played were all purchased.

Piracy of music is also wrong. The P2P networks are questionable, but they aren't as big of a problem as what the RIAA claims. There are other factors that are causing their sales to be down (a bad economy is just one of them). I have downloaded a few songs from the P2P networks. I use the P2P networks as a new fangled library where I'll checkout a few songs to see what they are like, much like I did at the city library when I was younger. Yah, there are people who are downloading all of the music that they listen to with no intention of purchasing any of it. That is wrong. But I don't blame the P2P networks just like I didn't blame the city library for people who taped the music they checked out from the city library. I view music piracy on the P2P networks as a social problem rather than a technical problem.

The big problem is that the RIAA has no business plan for people who want to have music in a convenient digital file format. People like MP3s because they're convenient. They like being able to have high bit rate files for home use, lower bit rate files for the portable player, etc. They like being able to make playlists and mix up the music instead of playing it all an album at a time. The RIAAs would want to take away that freedom. They want convoluted DRM (digital rights management) that makes digital files more bother than they're worth. With DRM it is not possible to change the bit rate of a file. With DRM it is difficult and convoluted to copy files in ways you would expect to put them on a portable player, copy them to your laptop or copy them to your car player. It's not a solution that consumers will accept. The RIAA has not answer that the consumers want, and for that they will have to face the business concequences.

Putting copy protection on CDs will not solve the problem on the P2P networks. It only takes a few people to figure out how to copy a CD and put it on the network for everyone to have access to it. Teenagers and young college kids don't usually care about audiophile fidelity in their recordings so they would still be happy with quality analog rips (resampling the analog output) of copy protected CDs and share those on P2P if it comes to that. Copy protecting the CDs isn't going to solve that problem. What copy protection does is make it inconvenient for people who purchase a CD and then want to convert it to a digital file so they can play it on the laptop, MP3 player, car MP3 player, etc. The labels end up screwing their honest customers. Not a smart business move and the labels should suffer the consequences of that stupid business move. People have been spending good money on MP3 players and they want to be able to use them as they expected when they bought them. They aren't going to appreciate the Big 5 making things difficult for them.

The copy protected Puddle Of Mudd "music disk" that I have does not have any warning on it that it is not a proper Compact Disk. There is nothing that says "hey, this may look and feel like a CD, but it isn't". The only clue is that I can't seem to find the Compact Disk logo on the packaging. I thought I was buying a CD. Instead I got what I can only consider to be a defective or corrupted CD. If that is the way the label is going to treat me I'm not going to buy their product. They are dishonest. They just want to stomp all over me. I don't want to do business with a company like that. I won't do business with a company like that. I can't remember a time that I've been more pissed about getting screwed by a purchase. They have severely underestimated how long I can and will hold a grudge for things like that.

I know some artists are stuck in contracts that won't allow them to change to a consumer friendly label. That's unfortunate for them. I don't want to hurt the honest artists who would rather their label do the right thing, but what else can I do.

Look at it this way, the indie artists are going to be making more money from me. It will be at the expense of the artists at the Big 5 labels, but that's the way it is in these things.

I haven't worked out all the details of what music I'm going to allow myself to buy. I just know that I don't want to buy or support copy protected CDs. I'll have to figure out something that makes sense. Fortunately there is music that is not produced by the Big 5. It means that I'm going to forced to change some of my listening habits and find some music that I'm not currently familiar with. I haven't followed indie music before. It will be a new experience for me.

[jagur]

Originally posted by john_childs

What copy protection does is make it inconvenient for people who purchase a CD and then want to convert it to a digital file so they can play it on the laptop, MP3 player, car MP3 player, etc. The labels end up screwing their honest customersi totally agree.the way i see it is.if i go and buy a CD,ITS MINE NOW.i can do what ever i want with it ,except break the law.copy protection that doesnt allow me to do what i want within my rights, is like the record label showing up inside my house and telling me they still own what i just bought from them.its a load of horse bleep.

[GILD]

thanx for a very well reasoned response
u're making me think about something i never realised was an issue
i haven't invested in an mp3 player or a home pc yet
so where do u start when following indie music?

;)

[john_childs]

Originally posted by GILD
thanx for a very well reasoned response
u're making me think about something i never realised was an issue
i haven't invested in an mp3 player or a home pc yet
so where do u start when following indie music?

;)
I've just started collecting links to the less mainstream (non Big 5) music along with links about CD copy protection. Some of the good sites that I have found are

Anti-RIAA
<http://www.boycott-riaa.com/>
<http://www.dontbuycds.org/> I don't agree with everything here but they have a good links section

Copy Protected CDs
<http://www.eff.org/cafe/drmgame/copy-protected.html>
<http://digitalconsumer.org/>
<http://www.thedent.com/badcds.html>

Music Links and Stuff
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/Record_Labels/> Labels
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/Reviews/Independent_or_Alternative/>
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/>
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/Styles/Rock/Alternative/>
<http://www.indiepie.com/>
<http://www.iuma.com/>
<http://www.earbuzz.com/>
<http://www.cdbaby.com/>
<http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/>
<http://www.mp3jackpot.com/>
<http://www.gnoosic.com/> A way to find bands that are similar to bands that you already know and like

A Google search on "indie music" and other searches will find stuff too.

If anyone has any other good links to indie type music or music that is not released or distributed by the Big-5 in the RIAA please post them.

[john_childs]

Back to the headphone topic. There are special binaural recordings that are recorded to sound best on headphones. The Binaural Source (http://www.binaural.com/) carries these types of recordings and has more info on what binaural recordings are along with some MP3 demos. I don't have any binaural CDs (I need to get some but I've been too lazy) but I have heard some binaural CDs on headphones and they are nifty.