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  • #16
    Well seeing as you like to throw words around, if you call a unicycle a toy, you could go on to call a plane a toy. Both are modes of transport, both have atleast one wheel and both have a large fan base, but the different is planes kill people, unicycles don't, so lets not throw words about without thinking
    One hop is a gift, two hops...now you're just taking the piss!

    VoodooUnicycles.com

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    • #17
      Originally posted by KlownLife
      Well seeing as you like to throw words around, if you call a unicycle a toy, you could go on to call a plane a toy. Both are modes of transport, both have atleast one wheel and both have a large fan base, but the different is planes kill people, unicycles don't, so lets not throw words about without thinking
      If they were practical tools for killing others I'm sure someone at the pentagon would be writing out checks for $100,000 unicycles (your basic Torker, probably) at this very moment. Your own example demonstrates exactly why unicycles are toys and planes for the most part are not. Planes also carry large loads great distances in relatively short periods of time. Last I checked neither FedEx nor UPS were using unicycles to deliver unicycles.

      Aside from their use for personal enjoyment and entertainment is there anything done on a unicycle that is not done in a more practical, efficient, or quicker manner by some other mode of conveyance?

      Don't we ride these things because they are inherently peculiar, challenging, fun, and weird? Did anyone here take up unicycling because he or she thought it was the quicker way to get around, the most efficient way to transport things, or even the most likely way to create opportunities for romance?

      Raphael Lasar
      Matawan, NJ
      Raphael Lasar

      To Plotz is Human
      To Shvitz Divine

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by onewheeldave
        The dictionary definition of 'hero'-

        hero n -roes 1 someone admired for bravery ~ism courage
        As long as we're playing semantic word games...
        Wouldn't circus performers be considered heros as well? Trying to walk a high wire while blindfolded without a net (I've seen this done) requires a lot of courage. This to me could be a hero.
        How many of us are brave enough to go ride around in a clown costume and be made fun of, occasionally assaulted? I have done this. It's scary to get in front of hundreds of children and try to entertain them for an hour. Does that make me a hero?
        Clowns, athletes, performers, heros... None of these are mutually exlusive. I have met clowns who fit all these definitions. And yes, they ride unicycles. This has nothing to do with the original orgument, but I just wanted to point out that there is a bias against circuses here, when we should be embracing a part of our heritage. Unicycles didn't originate from the circus, but there's a reason people associate us with the Big Top. Think about it...
        Blah Blah Blah BACON Blah Blah Blah
        --Harper a-la Catboy
        Still a work in progress . . .

        768

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by JJuggle

          Aside from their use for personal enjoyment and entertainment is there anything done on a unicycle that is not done in a more practical, efficient, or quicker manner by some other mode of conveyance?
          My ride to work would be faster by bike, but I haven't got room for a bike in my flat, so it's the fastest way to get there that I've got room for. It's also easy to store at work, I just bring it into the office and I don't need to lock it up when I just pop into a shop for something. By public transport it takes about 5 minutes longer and by car it takes about 20-30 minutes longer.

          Joe
          old pics new zealand pics new pics
          Where have I been riding? (GPS)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by JJuggle

            Aside from their use for personal enjoyment and entertainment is there anything done on a unicycle that is not done in a more practical, efficient, or quicker manner by some other mode of conveyance?

            Don't we ride these things because they are inherently peculiar, challenging, fun, and weird? Did anyone here take up unicycling because he or she thought it was the quicker way to get around, the most efficient way to transport things, or even the most likely way to create opportunities for romance?

            Raphael Lasar
            Matawan, NJ
            I ride mainly because I love the feel of being balanced on one wheel. I also have a bike, which is a wonderful machine, but it feels a bit clumsy compared to my unis.

            I do use them for transport, they are usually slower than bikes (over short distances with rush hour traffic they can compare in speed though) but make up for it in other ways (more fun, can be taken in shops without having to lock them outside, hands are free to carry shopping/objects etc, more sociable as you tend to get talking to people).

            Over the past two years, I'd say that in terms of transport I've used the unicycles about 95% of the time and the bike about 5%.
            "You can't outrun Death forever.
            But you can make the Bastard work for it."

            --MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
            "Last of The Lancers"
            AFC 32

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by paco

              As long as we're playing semantic word games...
              Wouldn't circus performers be considered heros as well? Trying to walk a high wire while blindfolded without a net (I've seen this done) requires a lot of courage. This to me could be a hero.
              How many of us are brave enough to go ride around in a clown costume and be made fun of, occasionally assaulted? I have done this. It's scary to get in front of hundreds of children and try to entertain them for an hour. Does that make me a hero?
              Clowns, athletes, performers, heros... None of these are mutually exlusive. I have met clowns who fit all these definitions. And yes, they ride unicycles. This has nothing to do with the original orgument, but I just wanted to point out that there is a bias against circuses here, when we should be embracing a part of our heritage. Unicycles didn't originate from the circus, but there's a reason people associate us with the Big Top. Think about it...
              I'm not knocking circus at all, or denying the courage, athleticism and skill of many circus performers.

              I'm simply stressing that the unicycle didn't originate from the circus or as a form of entertainment for audiences.

              Why, because I personally have found the publics preconceptions regarding unicyling/muni to be annoying (I'm not alone here and those who are totally ok with the circus comments being thrown at them should maybe start to accept that some of us aren't).

              I've tried to tackle this sensibly i.e. not waste time whinging, but get out there and challenge these misconceptions. It's been very effective, if I go for a ride in my area I get very few comments now, and, through newspaper articles and community contacts there is a greater awareness of the reality of muni/unicycling in the area I live in.

              I've spent a LOT of my life learning skills- juggling, poi/spinning, playing music, unicycling etc etc, as someone who has often found it difficult to get through life, having the ability to immerse myself in those skills, and to be able to do so without the need for teams/partners/audiences etc, has been of great value.

              A lot more people then is generally admitted also find it difficult to get through life, some of them can be helped by the confidence/focus that comes with learning these skills.

              I fully admit that the entertainment aspects are valuable for similar reasons, but, for me, they aren't appealing, for me it's the pure skill aspects.

              So, in the community projects I set up, I emphasise those aspects which I know well i.e. the skills.

              And, looking at the balance of the two aspects of entertainment/skills, in my opinion, there is a large bias towards the entertainment aspect.

              As a practical example, I'm working on getting funding for a community 'off road unicycling' project. After going into a lot of detail about what Muni was about, stressing the outdoor nature of it, extensive use of safety equipment (helmets/pads), it was seriously suggested that the group should appear in a local parade dressed as clowns!

              I'm intelligent and reasonable enough to explain why such a thing would not go with the project at all, and did so; i.e. challenged the preconception.

              So, that's one of my motivations for getting into a thread like this; as far as I'm concerned things are going well, recent articles in mountain bike magazines, Kris Holm style publicity, discussions on internet forums etc will lead to the preconceptions dying out in time.

              I guess what it comes down to is that, on a broad level, unicycling can be split into two- the entertainment/clown/giraffe/costume/enertainment side, and the off road/distance/helmet and pads/non circus side.

              Both are ok, and no one should feel insecure about being involved in either one; if there's no insecurity then we should have no need to blur the truth. To maintain that unicycling originated in the circus is blurring the truth, it is flying in the face of the facts.

              It's true that development took place in circus/entertainment, in fact, unicycling would probably have died out without that because, up till recently, the vast majority of unicycle manufacturing was geared towards the 20"-er and giraffes used for entertaining.

              But unicycling did not originate in circus/entertainment.
              "You can't outrun Death forever.
              But you can make the Bastard work for it."

              --MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
              "Last of The Lancers"
              AFC 32

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by onewheeldave
                But unicycling did not originate in circus/entertainment.
                and no one here is saying that it is

                if this whole discussion originated from the comment made by the thread starter (do they say DUH?! where i live?) then we should really reconsider

                not one poster to this thread suggested that unicycles originated from the circus and i think the unicycle world is clued up enough to know about the penny farthing link

                the general public however is a different issue
                and even there i doubt if u'll find a major amount of people who will happily argue that the uni originated in the circus
                that insecure people, surprised at the presence of a unicyclist in the middle of their boring grey world will still grab to the circus-(mis)conception in an attempt to 'level the playing field' is undisputed
                that we should address this misconception with the only tool at our disposal (information/knowledge) is quite possibly another thing we'll all agree on
                in the battle to rid future generations of unicyclists from the clumsy 'clown' comments passed by unimaginative drunk people (was that tautologous?)we are all fighting on the same side

                having said that
                i believe a lil' lightening up is in order around here
                'that' sentence in tom's first response wasn't offensive or worthy of being reported to a moderator
                it was hilarious and following OTT comments about hero's and athletes, clowns and idiots, homemakers and traffic cops it was the perfect way to start that post and go on to make some very good points

                while trying to lose the 'clown' jacket, let's not toss out the sense of humour or the ability to laugh at ourselves

                after all, we ride unicycles
                Three short Gs and a long E-flat™ - UniHoki
                If I'm Murdered, Don't Execute My Killer.
                harper
                MikeFule Seager BluntRM
                NAMASTE!
                Dave

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by GILD
                  while trying to lose the 'clown' jacket, let's not toss out the sense of humour or the ability to laugh at ourselves

                  after all, we ride unicycles
                  Very well said, Gild! Dave, I have to admit that my comments were just to keep the discussion going. I have nothing against most of your arguments; I agree that the public has a major misconception involving unicycles and that unicycling and clowning can be related, but don't have to be. I agree that sometimes we need to educate the general populus.
                  I love MUni, and when I'm out there on the trail, I'm doing it for myself, not to entertain anyone else. I rarely get any clown comments when I'm riding MUni or in the skate park, but I have heard my share of "Enter the Gladiators" as well.
                  But while many of the ignorant public can't seem to shake the misconception of unicycles and clowns, I seem to hear from the unicycling community that they hate clowns because they reflects poorly on us 'serious' riders. Why be serious when you can have a sense of humor?
                  I'll shut up now.
                  Blah Blah Blah BACON Blah Blah Blah
                  --Harper a-la Catboy
                  Still a work in progress . . .

                  768

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    My sense of humour is fine, that doesn't stop me taking some things seriously though.

                    The line at which something goes beyond humour into a region where it needs addressing is something we have to decide for ourselves.

                    I've have decided, after long experience in unicycling and the publics perception of it, where I draw that line, and I'm confident and happy with that choice.

                    Concerning the offensive comment, maybe it was a humorous one, my feeling was that it wasn't. I could be wrong, however I was straight and honest about it and simply said that I would report further such comments to a moderator, at which point it is in their hands.

                    I'm not the kind of person who habitually runs off to the moderators, in fact the only stuff I've ever previously reported has been spam.

                    Maybe it's true that no one here has said unicycling originated from the circus (other than the first post of course, which stated it quite clearly), however, there does seem to be some issue which is sustaining this discussion.

                    To be honest I'm not sure anymore what that issue is, given that we all accept that unicycling definitly didn't originate in the circus,or as an instrument of entertainment for an audience (we do all agree on that, yes?).

                    I suspect that maybe the issue comes down to our reaction to: -

                    Originally posted by GILD



                    while trying to lose the 'clown' jacket, let's not toss out the sense of humour or the ability to laugh at ourselves

                    after all, we ride unicycles
                    Some, like Paco, find comments like these perceptive and amusing, others, like me, find it a little insensitive given that much of this thread has been a debate on whether unicycling is a serious pursuit, in the way that mountain biking is, or something with a hint of mockery, even if it is self mockery.

                    like I hinted before, it's all well and good being harmonious, humerous and not taking things too seriously, let's just remember that it cuts both ways.

                    i.e. some of us here are obviously feeling a bit negative about issues like public perception, comments and factual inaccuracies.

                    Rather than having a go at us (albeit humourously) and basically critisisng our feelings, why not think about giving us some leeway and acknowledging that there are grounds to those feelings, and than reflect on the fact that, in critisisng, you're also maybe taking something a bit too seriously?

                    No hostility intended here, I've got respect for many of your posts here, we're both unicyclists, we're both trying to sincerely express our feelings; I guess in the same way I find your use of humour a little disturbing, you find my use of seriousness a little disturbing.
                    "You can't outrun Death forever.
                    But you can make the Bastard work for it."

                    --MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
                    "Last of The Lancers"
                    AFC 32

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by paco


                      But while many of the ignorant public can't seem to shake the misconception of unicycles and clowns, I seem to hear from the unicycling community that they hate clowns because they reflects poorly on us 'serious' riders.
                      I certainly don't hate clowns, I dislike being compared to them when when doing something as unconnected to clowning as riding my muni, but I definitly don't hate clowns.

                      Interestingly, there are many in the community of 'genuine clowns' who, having spent years practicing the art of clowning, are dismayed by the fact that others just stick on a clown costume and are seen by the public as being full on clowns. It drives them nuts!

                      Many of them actively try to challenge what they see as being a misconception.
                      "You can't outrun Death forever.
                      But you can make the Bastard work for it."

                      --MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
                      "Last of The Lancers"
                      AFC 32

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by onewheeldave
                        My sense of humour is fine, that doesn't stop me taking some things seriously though.

                        The line at which something goes beyond humour into a region where it needs addressing is something we have to decide for ourselves.
                        Having also been accused of being thin skinned and lacking humor here on these boards, I completely agree with Dave on this point.
                        Maybe it's true that no one here has said unicycling originated from the circus (other than the first post of course, which stated it quite clearly), however, there does seem to be some issue which is sustaining this discussion.
                        I reread Hoeher and here's what he says at the end of the history section discussing the period after 1903, the year of the first Tour de France:

                        "In the following years the art of unicycling was mostly limited to a few colourful individuals who developed it into a circus skill."

                        So from the beginning of the 20th century on unicycling was in the public mind an activity primarily seen in the circus. Seems like for better or worse 100 years is plenty of time for an idea to become deeply ingrained.

                        Unicycling may not have originated in the circus but certainly has deep roots within it. And as has been said in so many words, that tent is big enough for us all.

                        Raphael Lasar
                        Matawan, NJ
                        Raphael Lasar

                        To Plotz is Human
                        To Shvitz Divine

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JJuggle
                          Having also been accused of being thin skinned and lacking humor here on these boards, I completely agree with Dave on this point.
                          Cheers Raphael, I appreciate that.

                          Originally posted by JJuggle

                          I reread Hoeher and here's what he says at the end of the history section discussing the period after 1903, the year of the first Tour de France:

                          "In the following years the art of unicycling was mostly limited to a few colourful individuals who developed it into a circus skill."

                          So from the beginning of the 20th century on unicycling was in the public mind an activity primarily seen in the circus. Seems like for better or worse 100 years is plenty of time for an idea to become deeply ingrained.

                          Unicycling may not have originated in the circus but certainly has deep roots within it. And as has been said in so many words, that tent is big enough for us all.

                          Raphael Lasar
                          Matawan, NJ
                          Yeah, I guess it's understandable. Maybe, with the rising popularity of muni and the publicity associated with off roading and distance rides, in another hundred years the public will have different feelings about unicycling.

                          At the end of the day, I can't complain, it's far better to ride one wheel and get the occasional silly comment, than to not ride one wheel and get no comments.
                          "You can't outrun Death forever.
                          But you can make the Bastard work for it."

                          --MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
                          "Last of The Lancers"
                          AFC 32

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by onewheeldave
                            Maybe, with the rising popularity of muni and the publicity associated with off roading and distance rides, in another hundred years the public will have different feelings about unicycling.
                            I completely agree on this point. Even though I am a clown, I hope that in ten years when people see me riding in my costume, they will say, "I saw someone doing that offroad!"
                            Blah Blah Blah BACON Blah Blah Blah
                            --Harper a-la Catboy
                            Still a work in progress . . .

                            768

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              This feels like a good time for a Group Hug.

                              OOOOO
                              Tom Blackwood is like a shadowy figure behind a 36" tree...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: history of unicycling

                                onewheeldave <onewheeldave@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com> wrote in message news:<onewheeldave.11dven@NoEmail.Message.Poster.at.Unicyclist.com>...
                                > paco wrote:
                                > > *
                                > >
                                > > But while many of the ignorant public can't seem to shake the
                                > > misconception of unicycles and clowns, I seem to hear from the
                                > > unicycling community that they hate clowns because they reflects
                                > > poorly on us 'serious' riders. *

                                >
                                > I certainly don't hate clowns, I dislike being compared to them when
                                > when doing something as unconnected to clowning as riding my muni, but I
                                > definitly don't hate clowns.
                                >
                                > Interestingly, there are many in the community of 'genuine clowns' who,
                                > having spent years practicing the art of clowning, are dismayed by the
                                > fact that others just stick on a clown costume and are seen by the
                                > public as being full on clowns. It drives them nuts!
                                >
                                > Many of them actively try to challenge what they see as being a
                                > misconception.
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist
                                >
                                > "He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
                                > the Muni that really fires him up."
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > onewheeldave's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/874
                                > View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/30344


                                sorry dave, but tom blackwood was right, you are full of shit. report
                                him to the moderator? there is not moderator on rec.sport.unicycling
                                you idiot. theres no need for it. thats called censorship my friend
                                and can work against you just as quick as it works for you.

                                you seem to have some sort of hangup with clowns that you havent yet
                                come to grips with. before you go riding next time, you should shave
                                that orange afro off your head. you might also try laying off the
                                grease paint and stop wearing those baggy pants and big floppy shoes.

                                you friggin clown!

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