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Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

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  • Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

    Lewis, I knew that your rollback is your only freemount. I, too, have
    struggled long to get a reliable static freemount, the problem being
    that I could not suppress the tendency to put weight on the forward
    foot (on the back pedal). And even now, if I switch wheel or crank
    size I have to "learn again". Here are a few things that have helped
    me. Some may work for you (or for others). Or not...

    1. Practice mounting on a slope down. I know you can do a static kerb
    mount. (I even think it was you who coined the term.) If you are on a
    sufficiently steep slope down, it keeps the wheel from rolling
    backwards as much as a kerb does. What's weird about it is that as
    soon as you ride, you have to "fight" the slope. When you get the hang
    of it, go to successively gentler downslopes. I'm now practicing
    successively steeper upslopes (not very steep yet though).

    2. Think of the mount as if you are flying up through the air. As if
    your forward foot does not rest on something so it makes no sense
    stepping on it. So you're pushing off with the back foot, and the
    place to land is the forward pedal with the same foot, without an
    intermediate step with the other foot. It's a phase of "ballistic"
    flying because the energy has come from the push. It's like:
    PUSH! f l y y y y y y y y land.

    3. Concentrate on the position of the forward pedal, with respect to
    the environment (street, earth etc). That is the position where your
    second foot has to meet the pedal. You concentrate during the mount on
    keeping it there. (This one made the final breakthrough for me
    personally, but I think it's personal and may not work for most
    people.)

    4. (Somewhat in contradiction with 3, but it helped too.)
    Normally the back pedal is at about 8 or 9 o'clock position. You can
    also start in the, say, 6:30 position, and then as you push off to
    begin the mount, allow the wheel to roll forward. Then you may step on
    the pedal somewhat heavier, because the inertia of the wheel (and
    frame etc) will prevent it from kicking back too violently. It goes a
    bit toward a rolling mount.

    What a write-up. I hope it helps!

    Klaas Bil

    If you had this signature, I have forged it.

  • #2
    Re: Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

    Originally posted by Klaas Bil
    It's a phase of "ballistic" flying because the energy has come from the push. It's like:
    PUSH! f l y y y y y y y y land.
    So... is the number of "y"s determined by wheel diameter? Does crank length or seat post height factor into this? I mean, if you need to f l y y y y y y y y to get onto a 300mm seat post on a 20", then I probably have to f l y y y y y y y y y y y y y to get onto my 24" with a 400mm seat post... right?
    "Department of Redundancy Department. How may I help you?"

    Comment


    • #3
      Klaas,

      Thanks! I will try it out. I'm riding off-road again today at lunch so I won't be able to practice before-hand but I hope to practice over the weekend (tho I kinda want to wait until its cold because I sweat 10 times as much learning a new skill as I do riding off-road! It is the inefficiency of it all).

      Lewis
      Lewis W Beard
      lewis@lwb.org

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

        On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:12:38 -0500, Boolgow
        <Boolgow.ba2zn@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

        >So... is the number of "y"s determined by wheel diameter? Does crank
        >length or seat post height factor into this? I mean, if you need to f l
        >y y y y y y y y to get onto a 300mm seat post on a 20", then I probably
        >have to f l y y y y y y y y y y y y y to get onto my 24" with a 400mm
        >seat post... right?


        Seat post length - yeah that would make sense but I haven't thought of
        it that way before, nor noticed it in practice.

        Crank length or wheel diameter IMHO doesn't affect the number of y y y
        y y 's. Obviously they _do_ influence the mount. I think that with a
        shorter crank and/or a larger wheel you can (but also must) step a bit
        harder on the back pedal. But I must admit I have not much experience
        with a wide range of cranks or wheels - nor am I a freemounting expert
        (far from it!).

        Klaas Bil

        If you had this signature, I have forged it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Klass,

          Thanks! I tried you 4 pieces of advice, and #4 worked for me. I used forward momentum of my body to roll the cycle forward so that it became OK for me to keep lots of weight on the back pedal. In fact, the forces worked out so that the wheel actually didn't roll backwards at all even though the weight was firmly on the back pedal. I made it work about 5 times out of 10. Very cool. Thanks. I think I have a foundation from which to make a forward mount stable.

          Much appreciated.

          Lewis
          Lewis W Beard
          lewis@lwb.org

          Comment


          • #6
            One way to develop a static mount is to start with the back crank higher than horizontal. On a 26, I can do it with the crank actually parallel to the fork leg. The theory is:
            1) With the crank being above the horizontal, it is slightly harder for it to turn back as you put weight on it.
            2) Your free foot doesn't have so far to lift onto the front pedal because the front crank is BELOW horizontal.
            3) If there is any small amount of roll back, your free foot itercepts the front pedal as it is rising almost vertically, which is easier than intercepting it as it passes over top dead centre like it would in a convetional rollback.

            As you get better, you will find the starting conditions are less critical, and a little shove forwards will push the back pedal against your mounting foot, giving you a moment when all the forces are balanced, and you can step on easily.

            If you get the chance to practise on a bigger wheel than your normal one, go for it. Transferring back to the smaller wheel will take a few minutes (just ride, without trying to freemount) then you will find your freemounting of the smaller wheel is much improved. (e.g. I used to struggle with my 26 until I got the Coker, now I can freemount the 26 without any worry at all.)
            My first novel, Bridge of Otherwhere, Michael Wilkinson, on Kindle. A tale of subtle magic, mystery, friendship and love. Tinyurl.com/Bridge-of-Otherwhere For US$ page: TinyURL.com/OtherwhereBridge

            Comment


            • #7
              Mikefule,

              I have never had any trouble mounting my 29" using the forward mount, because the mass of the wheel is such that it didnt roll quick enough to get out from under me. However, I was never able to transition that to the 24" wheel.

              I do hope that I will be able to improve my 24" forward mount and transition it to my 29" since even though I have a reliable-enough 29" forward mount, I have always been able to tell that there was some philosophical difference in the mount I was doing and the mount I should have been doing.

              Or something.

              Thanks,

              Lewis
              Lewis W Beard
              lewis@lwb.org

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

                On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:35:45 -0500, Mikefule
                <Mikefule.bi29c@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

                > a little shove forwards will push the back pedal against
                >your mounting foot


                I think I understood everything you said except this bit. I want to
                experiment with the "back pedal higher" technique so I would
                appreciate some more elaboration.

                Klaas Bil

                If you had this signature, I have forged it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Static Freemount

                  When you do this type of mount how much weight do you put on the seat? I have been trying this mount and when I do I put just about all my weight on the seat and doing like rolling up on the seat when I jump off my left foot. Or should the weight be just on the pedals? Thanks Keith
                  If you're not falling your not learning.

                  http://www.keithmj.com
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StPeteJugglers/
                  http://www.Keithmj.unicyclist.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Keith,

                    Put equal weight on the back pedal and the seat -- simultaneously.

                    Hop or lunge forward and up, and as you begin to move, step on the back pedal AND put weight on the seat. Keep these two forces equal, and the wheel will not move. If you put more weight on the pedal, the wheel will roll back. If you put more weight onto the seat, the wheel will roll forward. If you keep the forces equal, the wheel will not move.

                    Practice this very gradually. Just try mini-hops at first -- just hop off the ground an inch (forward and into the seat, plus up off the ground one inch). Step on the pedal as you hop up and into the seat. Do that until the wheel doesn't move. Then try to hop forward and up a little more -- two inches. And always put equal force on the back pedal and the seat. Do that for a half hour, without even trying to do the mount. Just get the feel for putting equal force onto/into the seat AND the pedal (again, you need to move forward and up). Gradually, you will get higher and higher.

                    Once you have a feel for keeping the forces equal, you basically hop forward and up -- and you ride the seat up and over, until you are leaning a bit forward, then you go.

                    This is how I do it. I can't imagine jumping all the way up onto the seat before putting weight on the pedals. Sounds really hard.

                    I think my method is compatible with Klaas's #4. I'm not sure how he makes the wheel roll forward. If it is by sitting onto/into the seat, then that's how I do it. But I stop the forward roll before it even happens by putting the same amount of weight on the pedal (the back pedal will rise if you roll forward -- I put weight on the pedal to stop the rotation).

                    I think there are two schools of mounting -- weight on the pedal and no weight on the pedal. One of those methods will be right for you. For me, I need to put weight on the pedal. I'm a heavy guy and not good at jumping. It's hard to propel my body off the ground. So I need to "climb up" onto the unicycle.

                    It took me two evenings to get semi-reliable at this. And I'm not particularly gifted when it comes to balance and unicycle riding. If you are having much difficulty doing it the other way, please try it my way.

                    Well, hope that makes sense and helps somebody. Really, you only need to read the first sentence (now I tell you...)

                    uni57 (Dave)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mikefule
                      ... and a little shove forwards will push the back pedal against your mounting foot, giving you a moment when all the forces are balanced, and you can step on easily.
                      Mike,

                      Yes, that's how I do it.

                      I said the same thing above except my explanation used many, many more words. And many of the same words, repeated in slightly different ways. Maybe some permutation of words will make sense to somebody. Or maybe I just can't explain things well.

                      Klaas, a shove forward means to shove your butt into the seat as you hop forward and up. As that is happening, step onto the unicycle.

                      If the forces are balanced, the pedals can be horizontal or the back pedal can be a bit lower than horizontal. If you gradually practice keeping the forces equal, I don't believe you need to put the back pedal higher than horizontal.

                      uni57 (Dave)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

                        On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:09:29 -0600, uni57
                        <uni57.j0efn@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

                        >I think my method is compatible with Klaas's #4. I'm not sure how he
                        >makes the wheel roll forward. If it is by sitting onto/into the seat,
                        >then that's how I do it. But I stop the forward roll before it even
                        >happens by putting the same amount of weight on the pedal (the back
                        >pedal will rise if you roll forward -- I put weight on the pedal to stop
                        >the rotation).

                        Technically, I make the wheel roll forward by increasing the weight on
                        the seat before increasing pressure on the back pedal. If you start in
                        my initial position, that seems like the only way to make the wheel
                        roll forward.
                        Contrary to you, I do not stop the forward roll before it occurs. I
                        start from a too low back pedal position, let it come up to about the
                        correct height (say, 8 o'clock) and then jump up, at the same time
                        increasing the pedal pressure which more or less stops the wheel
                        forward roll - for a while, i.e. until I am on and ride away.

                        >Klaas, a shove forward means to shove your butt into the seat as you hop
                        >forward and up. As that is happening, step onto the unicycle.

                        OK, thanks. Clear now.

                        Klaas Bil
                        --
                        You (heart symbol from playing cards) whales? I (club symbol from playing cards) seals.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

                          Originally posted by Klaas Bil
                          Lewis, I knew that your rollback is your only freemount. I, too, have
                          struggled long to get a reliable static freemount, the problem being
                          that I could not suppress the tendency to put weight on the forward
                          foot (on the back pedal). And even now, if I switch wheel or crank
                          size I have to "learn again". Here are a few things that have helped
                          me. Some may work for you (or for others). Or not...

                          1. Practice mounting on a slope down. I know you can do a static kerb
                          mount. (I even think it was you who coined the term.) If you are on a
                          sufficiently steep slope down, it keeps the wheel from rolling
                          backwards as much as a kerb does. What's weird about it is that as
                          soon as you ride, you have to "fight" the slope. When you get the hang
                          of it, go to successively gentler downslopes. I'm now practicing
                          successively steeper upslopes (not very steep yet though).

                          2. Think of the mount as if you are flying up through the air. As if
                          your forward foot does not rest on something so it makes no sense
                          stepping on it. So you're pushing off with the back foot, and the
                          place to land is the forward pedal with the same foot, without an
                          intermediate step with the other foot. It's a phase of "ballistic"
                          flying because the energy has come from the push. It's like:
                          PUSH! f l y y y y y y y y land.

                          3. Concentrate on the position of the forward pedal, with respect to
                          the environment (street, earth etc). That is the position where your
                          second foot has to meet the pedal. You concentrate during the mount on
                          keeping it there. (This one made the final breakthrough for me
                          personally, but I think it's personal and may not work for most
                          people.)

                          4. (Somewhat in contradiction with 3, but it helped too.)
                          Normally the back pedal is at about 8 or 9 o'clock position. You can
                          also start in the, say, 6:30 position, and then as you push off to
                          begin the mount, allow the wheel to roll forward. Then you may step on
                          the pedal somewhat heavier, because the inertia of the wheel (and
                          frame etc) will prevent it from kicking back too violently. It goes a
                          bit toward a rolling mount.

                          What a write-up. I hope it helps!

                          Klaas Bil

                          If you had this signature, I have forged it.
                          It is amazing how this group is helpfull.I owe my static mount to Mikeful.However, I was recently desperate as my succes rate was diminishing daily.I blamed old age for it. After reading this thread I have applied advice of Klaas Bill and to may delight I, kind of, rollmount 8 out of ten with amazing cosistency.
                          There is so many teachers !!! .Thanks. Uniwitold.
                          Last edited by Uniwitold; 2003-02-18, 05:45 PM.
                          Veni !Vidi !Mount ! ' Public does not perceive it reacts'. Greg Harper.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Advice for static freemount for Lewis ((and others)

                            On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:43:27 -0600, Uniwitold
                            <Uniwitold.j255y@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

                            >to may delight I, kind of,
                            >rollmount 8 out of ten with amazing cosistency.
                            >There is so many teachers !!! .Thanks. Uniwitold.

                            Hurray for Uniwitold!

                            Klaas Bil
                            --
                            The pupil of an octopus's or goat's eye is rectangular.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is the mount I learnt on - I can only now do a roll back mount after ages of riding.
                              My way of doing it is to have the pedals in the same position as a rollback, but mirrored if that makes sense.
                              The idea of this was that my momentum is going forward, the wheel is then going forward ... I throw my other foot up and it is instantly on a down stroke - then you ride away.
                              This is the easiest mount I have ever learnt...a variation of this is to pedal forwards till the pedals are horizontal, then straight into a series of small hops on the spot....

                              But like I said, I find this easier than a roll back mount and the rolling forward mount does make it easier to start downhill if you are muni-ing....
                              Gazzaloddi - Who says three inches can't be satisfying?

                              Comment

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