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Game changer - 36er CARBON wheel!

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  • #46


    Please, make peace!

    Maybe unicyclists find it hard to believe me because I blew out as many candles as I posted on this forum. I love communicating on forums, but I still have trouble with English. To try to have credibility in your eyes: I am the new 10k world record holder, I want to be ready for next Unicon in my country, I need this "game changer" !

    Otherwise, thank you Unidreamer, I had thought of the confusion 745/754 but I didn't dare to propose it.

    Now, with bouin-bouin, we will buy some 362mm spokes + long thread nipples (14mm). We keep you informed if we ever succeed or fail to mount the wheels!
    Indoor training on a 24" freewheel unicyle

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by toutestbon View Post


      I love communicating on forums, but I still have trouble with English. To try to have credibility in your eyes: I am the new 10k world record holder, I want to be ready for next Unicon in my country, I need this "game changer" !

      Otherwise, thank you Unidreamer, I had thought of the confusion 745/754 but I didn't dare to propose it.

      Now, with bouin-bouin, we will buy some 362mm spokes + long thread nipples (14mm). We keep you informed if we ever succeed or fail to mount the wheels!
      You're welcome, and congratulations for your world record. France is definitely a champions fabric! cocorico
      I'm curious about how another lost pound in the 36" wheel will feel like.
      Accelerations and manoeuvrability will be improved I guess.
      Last edited by UniDreamerFR; 2019-12-05, 11:27 AM.
      - Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
      - Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
      - kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
      - Qu-ax trial 19"
      -24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

      Comment


      • #48
        The reason I can not be certain about the hub dimensions, even though I designed the hub, is that it was a specific request for the USA. It is a non standard hub... hence is not in my samples box (actually a big grey cupboard) of "golden samples".

        It is hard for me to confirm what is the right length, but I do know the spoke calculator does throw out the right figures when you put the right figures in.

        When building with a rim/hub for the first time you do a manual measure as is set out on the spoke calculator webpage. Then you build the wheel. You then work backwards to get the right figures for a rim's ERD or hub measurement. It is not unusual that they need a tweak.

        I suspect from what Didier has said that the production rim is thicker than the pre-production rim that had the 745 ERD, this would give a bigger ERD. To get things right we need to get dimensions confirmed for the hub (they should match the hub dimensions for the 36 ones, except they are 32) and then we need to measure where the spoke sits in the spoke with 367 spokes. My guess is that it is currently sitting between 1 and 2mm above the nipple head on Terry's wheel build. I can then work it all backwards and work it out.

        Roger
        ++++++++++++++++++
        Roger Davies
        Unicycle.com in the UK
        The UK's Unicycle Source
        www.unicycle.co.uk
        +++++++++++++++++++

        Comment


        • #49
          I measured the CF 36" rim ERD at 749mm maybe 750mm instead of 745mm on the specification from ther maker and weight is 625g

          So for the Nimbus non disc 100mm 32H hub, spokes should be 364/365mm
          I will probably use 14G (2mm) 362mm spokes which is existing dimensions and with long nipples (16mm ?)
          Roger, do you think this might be the right cvompromise ?
          http://monocycle.info
          http://www.leblogdumonocycle.fr/
          CITY XTP 26", MUNI KH26" & KH29", ROAD Oracle 32" and KH36"
          my goal : a 3 geared 29" to have only one uni for all kind of rides :-)

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by bouin-bouin View Post
            I measured the CF 36" rim ERD at 749mm maybe 750mm instead of 745mm on the specification from ther maker and weight is 625g

            So for the Nimbus non disc 100mm 32H hub, spokes should be 364/365mm
            I will probably use 14G (2mm) 362mm spokes which is existing dimensions and with long nipples (16mm ?)
            Roger, do you think this might be the right cvompromise ?
            No. Better to go longer than shorter. If you have the thread (if there is any) in the end of a long nipple you have only a brass nipple for some of the effective spoke length.

            I would suggest build with the longer length and use spoke washers. My guess is that it will only be out of the top of the nipple by 2mm at the most and that is ok.

            Once we have a wheel build confirmed, we can cut the exact spokes for people.

            Roger
            ++++++++++++++++++
            Roger Davies
            Unicycle.com in the UK
            The UK's Unicycle Source
            www.unicycle.co.uk
            +++++++++++++++++++

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
              No. Better to go longer than shorter. If you have the thread (if there is any) in the end of a long nipple you have only a brass nipple for some of the effective spoke length.

              I would suggest build with the longer length and use spoke washers. My guess is that it will only be out of the top of the nipple by 2mm at the most and that is ok.

              Once we have a wheel build confirmed, we can cut the exact spokes for people.

              Roger
              Roger, are you going to build a wheel to check what is the right spoke lengh ?

              I have a set of old 13G 369mm spokes (probably coming from a KH36 2008 Stealth1 wheel), do thing it can help if I try to build a wheel with my CF rim and Nimbus 32H 100mm non disc hub I received today from Municycle ?
              Last edited by bouin-bouin; 2019-12-06, 10:04 PM.
              http://monocycle.info
              http://www.leblogdumonocycle.fr/
              CITY XTP 26", MUNI KH26" & KH29", ROAD Oracle 32" and KH36"
              my goal : a 3 geared 29" to have only one uni for all kind of rides :-)

              Comment


              • #52
                Keep in mind that you have to include depth of the nipple head inside the cf rim when calculating ERD. I used two spokes of the same length inserted into exact opposite spoke holes, each threaded all the way to the bottom of the nipple slots.

                Then I used a caliper to hold the two spokes firmly together at the elbows and measured the gap between. I suggest using the tips of the caliper jaws for the most accurate reading. You then add this number to the length of the spokes and this gives you the ERD which includes the nipple head dimension.

                I used 12mm nipples but only 8mm protrudes on the outside, so the spokes go in past the outside of the spoke holes by 4mm. The manufacturer had told me that they added more cf reinforcement to the spoke holes so they are thicker, which require longer spokes than a traditional rim like the stealth.

                This is apparently why the 367s fit so well. Also, the next size down is 362mm which I was pretty sure would be too short. Always better to go a bit longer than too short.
                Last edited by MuniAddict; 2019-12-07, 04:05 AM.
                Happy Birthday Terry! Every year you get cooler, younger and unicyclier!
                Be our muniprohpet for many years more.
                -Dani Buron


                Website
                Videos
                Facebook

                Comment


                • #53
                  I used same method to measure the ERD of CF rim
                  http://monocycle.info
                  http://www.leblogdumonocycle.fr/
                  CITY XTP 26", MUNI KH26" & KH29", ROAD Oracle 32" and KH36"
                  my goal : a 3 geared 29" to have only one uni for all kind of rides :-)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Finally I had a 1st short ride today with my new KH36 CF rim
                    - Very light : 6870g thanks to CF rim (625g vs 1130g for Nimbus Stealth2) and QU-AX King Georges Ultimate (measured mine at 1250g vs about 1685g for Nimbus Nightrider Lite version)
                    - Wheel building with Nimbus 32H 100mm ISIS hub + 367mm (Roger’s calculator from UDC.UK gave 364/365mm) 14G (2mm) spokes / 16mm nipples is not an issue, I had to true again the wheel after 2 weeks during Christmas holidays without testing it yet ! I decided to apply a light tight as I had no experience with CF rim, effort with the spoke key is just higher than with aluminum eyeleted rim. Just be careful not to drop a nipple inside the rim, this a pain to catch it, use another spoke and screw the nipple in reverse side on it to avoid such mistake …
                    - Tyre fitting is not a big issue by hands as 2 plies sides are rather soft, I used a Michelin A3 AIRSTOP 700X35/47 VALVE PRESTA 40MM TUBE (3€ ONLY) compared to my previous Michelin Butyl Schrader 700 37X45mm weight is same (180g) but diameter is no more regular when you inflate it !
                    - I used 16mm tape from electrician, 3 turns, it fits perfectly in the hollow shape of the rim
                    - I put 2.5 bars and left the tyre a complete night as sides where not fitted fully every where on the rim shoulders, after 1 night, tyre was now perfectly fitted
                    - So riding is very soft, more regular, easy to accelerate as expected, 3 bars riding (same as I used with Stealth2 rim + Nightrider tyre) seems to high because of CF and narrower rim, comfort is a little bit worse, next time I will use lower pressure to compare
                    - My max speed is higher and easy to control, I could ride at 27km/h in 127mm cranks compared to 25/26 previously and with a good margin in balancing which is easier to control (lower inertia)
                    - Climbing sounds more regular but as I had no riding on the last 5 weeks (and enjoyed Christmas holidays), I was lacking of force in my legs. Probably I will be able to switch to shorter cranks 117/137mm same as when I moved from original 36” tube (600g) to 700cc tube (180g) which makes climbing easier thanks to lower inertia to accelerate the wheel
                    - No real chance to test camber but no specific complain and probably not an issue with such a narrow rim
                    Attached Files
                    http://monocycle.info
                    http://www.leblogdumonocycle.fr/
                    CITY XTP 26", MUNI KH26" & KH29", ROAD Oracle 32" and KH36"
                    my goal : a 3 geared 29" to have only one uni for all kind of rides :-)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bouin-bouin View Post
                      Finally I had a 1st short ride today with my new KH36 CF rim
                      - Very light : 6870g thanks to CF rim (625g vs 1130g for Nimbus Stealth2) and QU-AX King Georges Ultimate (measured mine at 1250g vs about 1685g for Nimbus Nightrider Lite version)
                      - Wheel building with Nimbus 32H 100mm ISIS hub + 367mm (Roger’s calculator from UDC.UK gave 364/365mm) 14G (2mm) spokes / 16mm nipples is not an issue, I had to true again the wheel after 2 weeks during Christmas holidays without testing it yet ! I decided to apply a light tight as I had no experience with CF rim, effort with the spoke key is just higher than with aluminum eyeleted rim. Just be careful not to drop a nipple inside the rim, this a pain to catch it, use another spoke and screw the nipple in reverse side on it to avoid such mistake …
                      - Tyre fitting is not a big issue by hands as 2 plies sides are rather soft, I used a Michelin A3 AIRSTOP 700X35/47 VALVE PRESTA 40MM TUBE (3€ ONLY) compared to my previous Michelin Butyl Schrader 700 37X45mm weight is same (180g) but diameter is no more regular when you inflate it !
                      - I used 16mm tape from electrician, 3 turns, it fits perfectly in the hollow shape of the rim
                      - I put 2.5 bars and left the tyre a complete night as sides where not fitted fully every where on the rim shoulders, after 1 night, tyre was now perfectly fitted
                      - So riding is very soft, more regular, easy to accelerate as expected, 3 bars riding (same as I used with Stealth2 rim + Nightrider tyre) seems to high because of CF and narrower rim, comfort is a little bit worse, next time I will use lower pressure to compare
                      - My max speed is higher and easy to control, I could ride at 27km/h in 127mm cranks compared to 25/26 previously and with a good margin in balancing which is easier to control (lower inertia)
                      - Climbing sounds more regular but as I had no riding on the last 5 weeks (and enjoyed Christmas holidays), I was lacking of force in my legs. Probably I will be able to switch to shorter cranks 117/137mm same as when I moved from original 36” tube (600g) to 700cc tube (180g) which makes climbing easier thanks to lower inertia to accelerate the wheel
                      - No real chance to test camber but no specific complain and probably not an issue with such a narrow rim
                      Nice wheel!

                      Do you only ride pavement with your 36er or do you take it offroad too? I would be interested to hear how the narrow rim handles dirt and gravel.

                      Instinctively I would think that a wider rim (like the Stealth 2) would be better offroad, but that said my "muni" has a 33mm rim and I don't have any complaints (ignorance is bliss ).

                      This rim looks great. Now it's just a matter of getting hold of one...
                      Unicycling is the fountain of youth.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by lightbulbjim View Post
                        Nice wheel!

                        Do you only ride pavement with your 36er or do you take it offroad too? I would be interested to hear how the narrow rim handles dirt and gravel.

                        Instinctively I would think that a wider rim (like the Stealth 2) would be better offroad, but that said my "muni" has a 33mm rim and I don't have any complaints (ignorance is bliss ).

                        This rim looks great. Now it's just a matter of getting hold of one...
                        I've already ridden mine off road at one of the most technical all Rock Trails and it performed beautifully. The next time I do 36er Muni with it I will put the heavier NR back on as the extra Plies give it more support over rough Terrain.
                        Happy Birthday Terry! Every year you get cooler, younger and unicyclier!
                        Be our muniprohpet for many years more.
                        -Dani Buron


                        Website
                        Videos
                        Facebook

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by bouin-bouin View Post
                          ... and QU-AX King Georges Ultimate (measured mine at 1250g vs about 1685g for Nimbus Nightrider Lite version)
                          The NR Lite listed weight is 1310g not 1685g. Mine weighed in at 1320g
                          Happy Birthday Terry! Every year you get cooler, younger and unicyclier!
                          Be our muniprohpet for many years more.
                          -Dani Buron


                          Website
                          Videos
                          Facebook

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by MuniAddict View Post
                            I've already ridden mine off road at one of the most technical all Rock Trails and it performed beautifully. The next time I do 36er Muni with it I will put the heavier NR back on as the extra Plies give it more support over rough Terrain.
                            Yeah, your video is inspiring . Just interested in a few more opinions .
                            Unicycling is the fountain of youth.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bouin-bouin View Post
                              - Wheel building with Nimbus 32H 100mm ISIS hub + 367mm (Roger’s calculator from UDC.UK gave 364/365mm) 14G (2mm) spokes / 16mm nipples is not an issue, I had to true again the wheel after 2 weeks during Christmas holidays without testing it yet ! I decided to apply a light tight as I had no experience with CF rim, effort with the spoke key is just higher than with aluminum eyeleted rim. Just be careful not to drop a nipple inside the rim, this a pain to catch it, use another spoke and screw the nipple in reverse side on it to avoid such mistake …
                              Curious to know if you de-stressed the wheel after building it? This should usually make it need less re-truing after the initial build and is especially important for carbon as it can prevent itfailing due to uneven stress on the rim! If it were built at a factory they'd put it in a hydraulic machine to stretch it out both ways but doing it at home you can just put the hub on something secure and stand on the rim on both sides.
                              “It is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history.”

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Bouin-Bouin: If I remember well, my Nightrider Lite is way lighter than yours, same weight as your KG. about 1200gm . Edit : Lite: more about 1350-1400 gm
                                my KG is about 1750-1800 gm
                                by the way is it a new version of the KG? I had the KG before the NR Lite and like I said it was heavier, and rather sensitive to road camber.

                                Edit: By the way, bouin bouin I think you made a mystake about the weight of your Lite.
                                this is a quote from you
                                "Mistake, mine is 1355g"
                                http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=66
                                Last edited by UniDreamerFR; 2020-01-05, 11:02 PM.
                                - Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
                                - Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
                                - kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
                                - Qu-ax trial 19"
                                -24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

                                Comment

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