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Looking for truly slick 24" tire for 1st uni.

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  • Pinoclean
    replied
    Originally posted by Mikefule View Post
    Simply untrue. I'm on my 9th motorbike in over 25 years of riding. Not only have all of them had grooves on their tyres, but it would have been illegal to ride them without. Grooveless slicks are for dry tracks, but grooved tyres are necessary for roads which may be wet.

    That said, I do agree with your other point that grooves on bicycle (and unicycle) tyres may not necessarily enhance the grip. As these tyres already have a tiny contact patch, compared to a car, the addition of grooves to help disperse the water may be unnecessary.

    My primary point earlier,perhaps badly expressed, was the important difference between "knobbly tyres" which have raised knobbles to dig into soft surfaces, and"treaded tyres" which have grooves cut into what would otherwise be a smooth surface. Knobblies have more rolling resistance and can squirm on a tarmac surface. The grooves in a treaded tyre make little or no difference to the rolling resistance.
    The difference between this

    and this perhaps?
    Last edited by Pinoclean; 2018-07-29, 03:58 PM.

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  • Mikefule
    replied
    Originally posted by Saul_nova View Post
    If we look at the tires of motorcycles though, we see no grooves.
    Simply untrue. I'm on my 9th motorbike in over 25 years of riding. Not only have all of them had grooves on their tyres, but it would have been illegal to ride them without. Grooveless slicks are for dry tracks, but grooved tyres are necessary for roads which may be wet.

    That said, I do agree with your other point that grooves on bicycle (and unicycle) tyres may not necessarily enhance the grip. As these tyres already have a tiny contact patch, compared to a car, the addition of grooves to help disperse the water may be unnecessary.

    My primary point earlier,perhaps badly expressed, was the important difference between "knobbly tyres" which have raised knobbles to dig into soft surfaces, and"treaded tyres" which have grooves cut into what would otherwise be a smooth surface. Knobblies have more rolling resistance and can squirm on a tarmac surface. The grooves in a treaded tyre make little or no difference to the rolling resistance.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrImpossible
    replied
    Originally posted by Saul_nova View Post
    I respectfully disagree with that last part (which I highlighted) and will state that any reduction in contact area is a detractor on the pavement. It's a common misconception that grooves in the tread pattern will offer a traction advantage on wet pavement. We see that car tires have grooves and think that all tires will benefit from them. If we look at the tires of motorcycles though, we see no grooves. Road-bicyclists, having benefitted from slick tires on their skinny-wheeled bikes, are starting to demand slick tires for their wider-wheeled bikes and Schwalbe is responding with the Kojak. Thank you, road-bicyclists!
    Road bikes use slick tires mostly for decreased rolling resistance, but rolling resistance is pretty much irrelevant for small wheel unicycles. The increased tire contact patch doesn't give much/any increased traction because you have correspondingly less pressure.

    Knobby tires waste energy because the tread knobs squirm around, and they can also "walk" around as the tread deforms, but they don't lose much traction. Check out the video muni ben just posted, riding extremely steep rock on a very knobby tire. He's got more traction than I've ever needed!

    The grooved and inverted tread pattern tires that come standard on unis aren't knobby enough to have any noticeable side effects vs. a slick tire, and do a little better on loose surfaces, so they're fine. If you never go offroad, a slick is fine too, but you won't gain anything.
    Last edited by MrImpossible; 2018-07-28, 07:00 PM.

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  • elpuebloUNIdo
    replied
    Originally posted by saul_nova View Post
    i decided to go with the club 20" instead.
    +1

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  • Saul_nova
    replied
    Since this unicycle will be the one I learn on, I decided to go with the Club 20" instead. I will probably be fitting it with a Schwalbe Kojak 20". If I like this uni, I'll probably order the Club 24" (or larger wheel) but definitely from a different retailer, because of UDC only offering FedEx shipping. I usually demand USPS Priority Mail, for many reasons.

    Originally posted by Mikefule View Post
    You'll find that this forum is the friendliest place on the internet and is full of people who have a passion for their sport. Strange thing is, the more miles you do, and the more unicycles you ride, the more you realise that the market has responded well to what experienced rides need. A beginner's preconceptions of what they might need are often mistaken.

    Unicycling is still a niche market compared to bicycling, and if tools need to be made to produce tyres or other components, there is always a compromise.

    There is a fundamental difference between "knobbly tyres" where the knobbles stick out, and a "treaded tyre" which has grooves in what would otherwise be a smooth surface. A treaded tyre has pretty much the same rolling characteristics as a completely slick one, with the added benefit of better grip in the wet.
    I respectfully disagree with that last part (which I highlighted) and will state that any reduction in contact area is a detractor on the pavement. It's a common misconception that grooves in the tread pattern will offer a traction advantage on wet pavement. We see that car tires have grooves and think that all tires will benefit from them. If we look at the tires of motorcycles though, we see no grooves. Road-bicyclists, having benefitted from slick tires on their skinny-wheeled bikes, are starting to demand slick tires for their wider-wheeled bikes and Schwalbe is responding with the Kojak. Thank you, road-bicyclists!

    Leave a comment:


  • Pinoclean
    replied
    The DTH in 24 and 20 is a great tyre. The hookworm is bloody heavy

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  • OneTrackMind
    replied
    Originally posted by johnfoss View Post
    Sounds like this person is describing the Hookworm's performance on dirt. If they are mixing dirt and pavement they're not communicating well.

    OneTrackMind mentioned camber problems also, but it was not clear if that was road or dirt either. .
    The quote was from me as well.

    I ride mostly on the footpaths (sidewalks) and some of them are quite steep and seriously side sloping on some driveways.

    In fairness to the 26 inch Hookworm, I had been riding a 24 x 1.75 Maxxis DTH for most of a year before taking it on. The DTH is about as different from the Hookworm as one could get. In the 26 inch the DTH is literally half the weight of a Hookworm.

    I wasn't used to the size nor the incredible mass of the Hookworm. The slide on wet concrete also showed the "grooved slick" tread was more decorative than functional.

    I couldn't see any point of persisting once I discovered the DTH was also available in 26 x 2.15. I only mentioned the sidewall robustness to counter giving the impression that the Hookworm was without any virtues.

    I've ridden on tarmac that had rocks so big and sharp at the verges that I got off and walked. I could have appreciated a Hookworm there.
    Last edited by OneTrackMind; 2018-07-27, 11:33 AM.

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  • johnfoss
    replied
    Originally posted by JimT View Post
    One thread reported, "The Hookworm has one real strength, bead to bead tread, making it a very robust tyre, great on sharp rocks and drops. The drawback it that it is very heavy and rigid against sideways forces resulting in strong camber effects and very slow response."
    Sounds like this person is describing the Hookworm's performance on dirt. If they are mixing dirt and pavement they're not communicating well.

    OneTrackMind mentioned camber problems also, but it was not clear if that was road or dirt either. On road, usually the camber is less, but the speed is greater and you're going for a long way on it. Camber on dirt is usually for shorter distances, and often at a much greater angle than on pavement. Naturally you will tend to have high pressure for Road riding, but need lower pressure if your dirt riding contains lots of bumps, rocks, etc.

    Alas, I can't offer any personal advice on the Hookworm, other than knowing it was popular and having seen lots and lots of them.

    And I'll add, with Roger in mind, that I'm surprised to see UDC USA only offering two choices of 24" tire, both of which are 3" wide. What about all those unicycle you sell with "regular width" 24" tires, like the Club? Where do those customers go for tires? Possibly local stores, because UDC USA can be pricey when it comes to shipping...

    Leave a comment:


  • Mikefule
    replied
    Originally posted by Saul_nova View Post
    I assure you that I'm fully prepared to look goofy during the learning stage. The goal of this message topic was to better-optimize my unicycle's functionality. Only being able to buy a pavement-intended unicycle with a knobby tire is ridiculous. The customer base needs to demand better.
    You'll find that this forum is the friendliest place on the internet and is full of people who have a passion for their sport. Strange thing is, the more miles you do, and the more unicycles you ride, the more you realise that the market has responded well to what experienced rides need. A beginner's preconceptions of what they might need are often mistaken.

    Unicycling is still a niche market compared to bicycling, and if tools need to be made to produce tyres or other components, there is always a compromise.

    There is a fundamental difference between "knobbly tyres" where the knobbles stick out, and a "treaded tyre" which has grooves in what would otherwise be a smooth surface. A treaded tyre has pretty much the same rolling characteristics as a completely slick one, with the added benefit of better grip in the wet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mikefule
    replied
    I have a Hookworm on my 20 and a Hookworm on a 24 that I've borrowed long term. The 20" Hookworm feels like a wooden tyre. I just don't like it. The 24 is much better.

    Camber problems are sometimes a sign that you need to put a bit more air in the tyre. Some tyres are particularly communicative in this way.

    Leave a comment:


  • OneTrackMind
    replied
    Originally posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
    I had not seen that thread before, I will need to investigate further as to why he is reporting camber problems on a tyre we have not had problems with.
    As I said in the other thread, I have 20 inch Hookworm. I experimented once to see if I could make it react to camber by lowering the pressure. It seemed immune.

    I have not ridden it for a very long time but my experience of the 26 inch Hookworm was very bad. I was running it at 30 psi and the camber effect seemed strong in the little riding I did on it.

    I suspect if it were pumped to maximum pressure the problem would be reduced as it is with most tyres. But in the same test ride I had the tyre slip while decelerating on smooth rain-soaked concrete so I wan't inclined to raise the pressure either. Replaced it with a DTH and never looked back at the Hookworm.

    The Hookworm's weight is great for momentum but it makes it unresponsive, especially in a larger diameter.

    I have never had a 24 inch Hookworm and wondered if it would feel more like the 20 or the 26. Another rider on this forum reported that they found the 24 was bad on camber.

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  • rogeratunicycledotcom
    replied
    My experience and feed back from our customers is that the tyre is one of the best on the market for camber. This was are go to tyre for a long time until they got almost impossible to get hold of... so we have sold a lot of them. I had not seen that thread before, I will need to investigate further as to why he is reporting camber problems on a tyre we have not had problems with. It is NOT an offroad tyre, it is a tyre for general use on road though.

    We are out of the tyre at the moment so we can not do any swaps.

    Roger

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  • JimT
    replied
    Originally posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
    Best 24" tyre is the Maxxis Hookworm in my opinion. If you get an option go for the heavier version.

    It offers amazing grip, is tough and does not suffer from camber problems.

    Roger
    It should be noted that the camber effect of a tire is not always easy to determine from users reports. Many have reported that the Hookworm is quite bad on road camber. One thread reported, "The Hookworm has one real strength, bead to bead tread, making it a very robust tyre, great on sharp rocks and drops. The drawback it that it is very heavy and rigid against sideways forces resulting in strong camber effects and very slow response." At:
    http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=121240

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  • Saul_nova
    replied
    Originally posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
    Best 24" tyre is the Maxxis Hookworm in my opinion. If you get an option go for the heavier version.

    It offers amazing grip, is tough and does not suffer from camber problems.

    Roger
    Thanks much for the suggestion. I would be ecstatic if I could get that tire substituted for the one that currently comes on the Club unicycles.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogeratunicycledotcom
    replied
    Best 24" tyre is the Maxxis Hookworm in my opinion. If you get an option go for the heavier version.

    It offers amazing grip, is tough and does not suffer from camber problems.

    Roger

    Leave a comment:

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