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Oracle 36 hub still squeaking ?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Pierluc View Post

    I don't understand that 3 to 6 mm thing. Is that spacer washer the one on the crank m12 bolt or the axle washer on the hub ? Because just pushing the crank arm snug with my hands the inside of the crank got only 1mm shoulder for the bolt washer to push on so I think I couldn't go snug by hand then 3 to 6 mm more in
    This 3-6 mm is the rule of thump for distance between crank and axle washer. That applies for installing new cranks. Once you mount aluminium cranks on the steel axle they obviously widen up a bit. So on reinstallation they will come much closer to the spacer. That is one of the backsides of ISIS. Frequent installation (of the same cranks) will widen them out.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by lightbulbjim View Post
      I take your point, but note that press fits are used in all sorts of applications with greater stresses than a unicycle.

      Something to consider: when you regrease your bearing/hub interface you also remove and reseat a) your cranks and b) the bearings in the frame. Are you 100% sure the noise isn't coming from one of those places?
      I realize that Pierluc's problem is probably w/ he arrangement of his spacers so the following rant is probably not pertinent to his issue. But I don't want to waste this rant ;-)

      RANT
      Yeah, call me crazy but I tried all the easy fixes first. I have greased those surfaces a crap ton w/o lasting success. I'm all about inference to the best explanation--abduction. I gave you the best explanation that I've come up with. I've been f'ing with my unis for 3 years trying to track down creaks. What I've described is my best take on them. Creaks can come from all over the place but when you've addressed all but one source the reasonable thing to do is try that one last thing out. Of course, it's the least convenient so ppl might resist doing it. Like I did until I gave in to my natural curiosity.

      I've had cranks/pedals on and off multiple times b/c, I agree with you that it's the best first explanation. But it failed the empirical test. Conclusions derived from the armchair are for philosophers who don't need to live in the real world. I prefer empiricism to rationalism. Go ask a bike mech about press fits. They have to work with them a lot. They've got the empirical data. Press fits creak and press fit radial contact bearings are a shitty design for that and other reasons https://youtu.be/qkn8XtwwDI0.

      I'm sorry for getting cranky about this. I shouldn't care if ppl doubt me. They can repeat all of my efforts themselves. I'm just suggesting something that worked for me. I'm not guaranteeing anything. But it might save someone a lot of aggro. I would have appreciated my suggestions 2 years ago when I started this journey.

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      • #18
        I took my Stealth apart today and fixed my creaking issue! Super easy!
        It seems like the creaking issue was coming from the bearings, specifically the bearing housing. I used a small amount of friction tape on the bearing/housing contact points. Boom! Silence! I took her for a 5 mile test ride and I didn't hear a single peep!

        I took a couple pics of the process:
        https://imgur.com/a/2YiMbrN

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Unitardis View Post
          Apologies, I didn't mean to ruffly any feathers. If you and I are ever in the same part of the world at the same time let's go for a ride .
          Unicycling is the fountain of youth.

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          • #20
            I got some work done on the bearing spacers tonight!
            Sanded the left side side one from 7cm to 6.4cm and the right side one from 7cm to 4.2cm!
            when i push the cranks in tight by hand, i get a small 1 millimeter gap that gets pressed close when i insert the bolts.

            This seems like the right fix! been pushing hard on those crank and cant get any movement like before.

            No actual riding done yet! i might try to go for a big ride soon and report if it works

            Thx for all the tips!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by DirtyPuddle View Post
              I took my Stealth apart today and fixed my creaking issue! Super easy!
              It seems like the creaking issue was coming from the bearings, specifically the bearing housing. .....
              I had the same issue. This is how I fixed the noise and the problem of bearing cap bolts working loose. It took a few iterations to get the thickness of the washers just right but have had no noise or loose bolts since. Also no loctight needed on the bolts.


              Jim

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              • #22
                Hey Jim,

                had the same issue on my Muni. Did the same modification to all my unis then. Got me some shims in different thickness (0,1 0,2 0,5 1,0 mm). By using them it is easy to adjust the proper thickness. I use a spare bearing and put it into the frame for adjusting. Much easier handling then the wheelset. Then turning it by hand (actually a finger) it is easy to find the point where it starts to be deformed.

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                • #23
                  Went riding today. Cranks are holding tight !
                  Still i wonder if my isis spline is undersized ? Snugging the crank arm by hand and the bolt only have a tiny 1 mm shoulder that it can push deeper on the crank. Installing those same crank on my other unicycle and even a bicycle isis hub when I put it snug by hand it still have a 3-4mm shoulder to be press by the bolt. That could be why I had to make my spacers 4mm instead of the original 7mm ? I'll check with the caliper tomorrow.

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                  • #24
                    Pierluc,

                    It would be interesting to see if your axle is under sized. Here is a drawing from the standard:

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                    • #25
                      A bit undersized compare to my bicycle hub, but quite similar to my other nimbus hub that is working fine with 7mm spacers and same crank Ill put locktite on that isis screw and stop worrying about it.

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                      • #26
                        Isis bolts are still loosening after a long ride , never need a crank puller to get the cranks out I dont think i can shave my spacers more than that because my isis bolt dont have much to push on the crank arms already. Didnt loctite yet.
                        Even trying cranks on without spacers on either size, crank snug by hand can only get .5 to 1mm maximum of press fit from the bolt ( same result with 3 pairs of venture 2 cranks that i have ) Waiting for answers from municycle.ca

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                        • #27
                          Pierluc,
                          Did you measure your axle at section B-B of the above drawing. This measurement would tell you if the taper is correct on your axle. The measurement should be 17.412 to 17.464mm at a point 9mm out from the male shoulder.

                          Your measurements are within the spec if they were taken about 2mm from the end of the axle but that is only half the story.

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                          • #28
                            After using loctite on the isis bolt and tightening it really hard, it seems to hold better but still loosen after a while. Municycle is sending me a pair of VCX crank and different size of washers to try. Aparently those cranks hold more tight on the axle. Cant wait to be riding without hassle Its a great ride other than that!

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                            • #29
                              I've got a 36 Oracle with an aluminum hub (a few years old now). A few weeks after I bought it, the unicycle starting making a constant squeaking noise when pedaling but I gave up trying to work out where it came from a long time ago.

                              I've also got the ongoing problem with the cranks being quite loose on the hub (maybe because of the aluminum hub). I've tried both KH and venture cranks. I recently bought some VCX cranks and they definitely fit much tighter than the other ones. Hopefully they will stay that way for a long time. By the way my VCX cranks are the multihole ones (three holes) and they are great!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by lightbulbjim View Post
                                Apologies, I didn't mean to ruffly any feathers. If you and I are ever in the same part of the world at the same time let's go for a ride .
                                Sure LBJ! I was already in a bad mood for other reasons and it fueled the rant. I was really torqued about the culture of gullibility in the US and the failure to appreciate good inferential habits and principles. The irritation latched on to the matter of finding unicycle creaks which, at least, provide clear feedback to the experimenter (unlike most social problems which are beset by ambiguous and complex feedback.) In other words, and as so often is the case, it was about me--I ruffled my own feathers...

                                A ride is definitely on order!

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