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TA tyre : 4 PLY or 2 PLY ??

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  • #16
    Thank you all for your answers.

    I just dismounted the tyre, and weighted all parts with my electronic balance (by weighting myself with and without parts).

    The 2 PLY TA tyre weights about 2.1kg
    The tube : Wheel TA 2.25-31 : 600gm (original 36" tube I guess)
    Hub+rim+48 pokes : 2.1kg

    Before dismounting the Tyre, when I inflated it and then listen to hear where was the leak it seamed to come from the valve, and when I was touching/bending it I could clearly hear the air leak getting stronger.
    But once the tube retired from the tyre, pumped a bit and plunged under water, I couldn't see any bubble anywhere.
    I just can see some of the tube matter above the boundaries of the valve disk plate detaching itself a bit, but not to the point that I see a hole in the tube.
    I presume that the air only goes out when the PSI are above what I can put in the tube without any tyre.

    Anyway, what do you guys think about the weight of the tyre, tube and more interestingly the wheel's weight (hub+spokes+rim) ?

    I guess I can save a few hundreds of grams by buying a Nightrider tyre and a Foss 36er tube (being able to inflate the tyre to 65PSI without doubling the max recommended PSI would be a big + ), but I can't do anything about the 48 spokes and the rim itself.

    So if it really makes the wheel more easy to accelerate and control, it definitely worths it and I could use this old Qu-Ax for a while before thinking about selling it and buying a nimbus or kh 36er, but if a new tyre and light tube doesn't change anything, it's not the same deal.

    By the way, the space between the rim sides is about 27-28mm,the part of each side in contact with the tyre bead is about 5mm deep, the rim has a U form on the tube side, and a \_/ form on the spokes side (see the photo) I just hope it can keep the nightrider tyre beads tight at 65 PSI.


    Since it is not a 4PLY TA but a 2PSI TA (the mystery is still here), I'm not sure I want to inflate this TA to the double of the max recommended PSI.

    Another question about the nigthrider tyre:
    is there an old and heavy Nightrider tyre and a recent one lighter, (I guess so) and if yes, what are the release date of the new one?
    I ask this cause I'm not sure the french unicycle web shops have the last one, but if I know the release date I could ask more precisely before ordering it.

    Edit:
    Today i took off the TA tire and installed a Nightrider Tire. I did compare weight by hand and weight appears to be quite similar. I may be imagining things but it appears to handle better than the TA tire at low pressure (32 PSI). Especially the yawing motions when turning at low speeds. Perhaps it has something to do with the way it deforms or with the thread pattern. I will test it at higher PSI to see if this improves handling.
    Very interesting.
    I can't wait to read what are your feelings with the High PSI
    Last edited by UniDreamerFR; 2015-12-07, 12:15 PM.
    - Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
    - Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
    - kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
    - Qu-ax trial 19"
    -24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by UniDreamerFR View Post
      Thank you all for your answers.

      Another question about the nigthrider tyre:
      is there an old and heavy Nightrider tyre and a recent one lighter, (I guess so) and if yes, what are the release date of the new one?
      I ask this cause I'm not sure the french unicycle web shops have the last one, but if I know the release date I could ask more precisely before ordering it.
      The change of tyre happened over 2 years ago, but we did not make a big announcement as there was stock of the older tyre still in stores. I would expect all tyres to be the newer lighter design now.

      We have not been notified by QuAx if the carcass is the same as the Nightrider. The Nightrider has a high thread count to allow it to run at the higher pressures.

      Roger
      ++++++++++++++++++
      Roger Davies
      Unicycle.com in the UK
      The UK's Unicycle Source
      www.unicycle.co.uk
      +++++++++++++++++++

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
        The change of tyre happened over 2 years ago, but we did not make a big announcement as there was stock of the older tyre still in stores. I would expect all tyres to be the newer lighter design now.

        We have not been notified by QuAx if the carcass is the same as the Nightrider. The Nightrider has a high thread count to allow it to run at the higher pressures.

        Roger

        Thanks for this precision.
        Have you got an official web shop for France ? (I don't think so but I could be wrong)
        - Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
        - Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
        - kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
        - Qu-ax trial 19"
        -24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

        Comment


        • #19
          We do not have a Unicycle.com in France but cdk.fr and funicycle.com are dealers and do have nimbus unicycles and parts. Worth checking with either of them or we can ship from the UK. We definitely only have the light tyre.

          http://www.unicycle.uk.com/nimbus-ni...2-25-tyre.html

          Regards


          Roger
          ++++++++++++++++++
          Roger Davies
          Unicycle.com in the UK
          The UK's Unicycle Source
          www.unicycle.co.uk
          +++++++++++++++++++

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
            We do not have a Unicycle.com in France but cdk.fr and funicycle.com are dealers and do have nimbus unicycles and parts. Worth checking with either of them or we can ship from the UK. We definitely only have the light tyre.

            http://www.unicycle.uk.com/nimbus-ni...2-25-tyre.html

            Regards


            Roger
            Don't blame him Roger, he is very new at unicycling ;-)
            Unidreamer, I have spare original 36" tubes for you if you need, I don't use such trucks anymore
            Last edited by bouin-bouin; 2015-12-07, 02:47 PM.
            http://monocycle.info
            http://www.leblogdumonocycle.fr/
            CITY XTP 26", MUNI KH26" & KH29", ROAD Oracle 32" and KH36"
            my goal : a 3 geared 29" to have only one uni for all kind of rides :-)

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by bouin-bouin View Post
              Don't blame him Roger, he is very new at unicycling ;-)
              Not exactly true, I had been riding unicycle all alone for 5 years before meeting other wheelers and registering forums
              Unidreamer, I have spare original 36" tubes for you if you need, I don't use such trucks anymore
              Thank you very much for this offer.
              I guess I will end by ordering a Nightrider at cdk (that I well know ) or unicycle.uk.com, and if I do that, I will also order a FOSS 36" tube for its light weight.
              I also have a 29" tube under hand which is about the same weight as a FOSS 36" tube but I'm not sure I want to struggle with the tyre mounting and tube stretching, so I will probably keep it for the case my 29er needs it.

              My original 36" tube seams fixable anyway, the day I want to sell my qu-ax 36er, I'll fix it then and put back the TA, but if I can't, your tube will be welcome indeed.


              We do not have a Unicycle.com in France but cdk.fr and funicycle.com are dealers and do have nimbus unicycles and parts. Worth checking with either of them or we can ship from the UK. We definitely only have the light tyre.

              http://www.unicycle.uk.com/nimbus-ni...2-25-tyre.html

              Regards


              Roger
              Thanks Roger, I do know very well cdk.fr, I nearly order every thing from them.
              Romain is very cool, I'll ask him about what version of NR he has got in stock.
              What makes me wonder is that the weight indicated on their website for nightrider tyre is 1.9kg which is more than the light new NR I guess.

              If he can't sell me the lighter ones, I'll ask to funicycle guys or order at your shop.

              Regards
              - Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
              - Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
              - kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
              - Qu-ax trial 19"
              -24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by UniDreamerFR View Post
                ... Romain is very cool
                I agree... I am also one of his fan club. He is really good for unicycling.

                Roger
                Last edited by rogeratunicycledotcom; 2015-12-07, 07:11 PM.
                ++++++++++++++++++
                Roger Davies
                Unicycle.com in the UK
                The UK's Unicycle Source
                www.unicycle.co.uk
                +++++++++++++++++++

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by UniDreamerFR View Post
                  I also have a 29" tube under hand which is about the same weight as a FOSS 36" tube but I'm not sure I want to struggle with the tyre mounting and tube stretching, so I will probably keep it for the case my 29er needs it.
                  I have used the original heavy tube 29" tube and 26" foss tube in the 36. Swapping to a lighter tube can make a surprisingly big difference to the feel of a 36" unicycle. I can't tell much (if any) difference between a stretched 29 and the foss tube when riding.

                  Both are way lighter than the original 26" tube but both will lose air over time and require more frequent topping up. The 29" tube is cheaper and more readily available but a bit of a pain to set up, the foss on the other hand is super easy to use.

                  Patch the old heavy tube and stick it on a shelf, who knows it might work as a flotation device .
                  My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. - Jack Layton

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Putting that Foss tube in my 36er was a gamechanger. I know a few people have had problems with them (Such as the valve blowing out or all sorts of other scary things) but mine has 'just worked' perfectly - no punctures at all since I put it in *touch wood* and the wheel feels a hell of a lot lighter. I ride my 36er every day and only need to top up the air every couple of weeks, and even then that's only because I run it at like 60PSI

                    The only downside to me was the cost, especially as I got it from the German UDC so paid a lot of shipping too. If it ever goes on me, I'll probably just start using 29er tubes to save some money, but the convenience of seemingly never puncturing is a good one. I literally destroyed my normal 36er tube because it became more puncture-patch than tube, and riding to work every day means I can't really afford to be breaking down halfway down the road!
                    Last edited by Piece Maker; 2015-12-07, 11:28 PM.
                    “It is well known that a vital ingredient of success is not knowing that what you're attempting can't be done. A person ignorant of the possibility of failure can be a half-brick in the path of the bicycle of history.”

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I also have a foss tube on my nimbus 29 road with a Schwalbe Super Moto tyre that I just tested, and inflated to 60 PSI it's super light compared to my 36er wheel !

                      About new nightrider VS old nightrider tyres :
                      I contacted Romain from Cdk, he answered me that he isn't sure if he has the new nightrider or the old one in stock, but he told me that he could weight it if I want.

                      how many grams are supposed to weight the new and the old nightrider?
                      - Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
                      - Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
                      - kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
                      - Qu-ax trial 19"
                      -24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Piece Maker View Post
                        a few people have had problems with them (Such as the valve blowing out or all sorts of other scary things)
                        I've discovered that there are actually at least two different types of Foss tube. My 36er came with one in it which is has mostly a translucent greenish tint and a dull, slightly textured surface. Then on the side which faces the hub there's a strip about 20mm wide (basically the section which would be in contact with the rim strip) where the material is much thinner, glossy, and more transparent.

                        I went to top off the pressure a couple of weeks ago and the action of pressing the pump head onto the valve caused the tube to tear about 5mm at the junction of the valve reinforcement and the thin material area. It didn't look like glue failure or anything - it was just a highly stressed area due to the abrupt change in thickness and the thin material tore. It was too close to the valve to repair.

                        I decided to give the Foss one more try before switching to a 29er tube, so I ordered another one from UDC. This one is completely different to my first one. It has a transparent blueish tint and is glossy all over. It is also the same thickness everywhere and feels much sturdier than the first one. I didn't weigh either of them; probably should have before I installed the new one...

                        My 36er is a Nightrider Pro which I bought new from UDC in July of this year. So it's possible that the first tube was old stock which had been sitting on the shelf for a while and Foss have since changed their design.
                        Unicycling is the fountain of youth.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lightbulbjim View Post
                          I've discovered that there are actually at least two different types of Foss tube....
                          Your new tube will look just like the old one in a few weeks. I don't know why they go from slightly blue to kind of greenish but they also deform over time to become the shape (and texture) of the inside of the tire.
                          My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. - Jack Layton

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by saskatchewanian View Post
                            Your new tube will look just like the old one in a few weeks. I don't know why they go from slightly blue to kind of greenish but they also deform over time to become the shape (and texture) of the inside of the tire.
                            Oops . I guess that makes sense. I hope the inside face doesn't stretch as thin as the last one - it felt almost like a latex glove and very fragile.
                            Unicycling is the fountain of youth.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I have just checked the last 3 batches of Nightrider tyre to see the weights. They are pretty consistently 1690g

                              The foss tube is continually under development and it had a big update about a year ago. They changed the material to a more substantial material, it is less clear and more milky in look. Although this makes them a bit heavier, they are a lot more durable and less prone to natural leakage. Unfortunately that change also put the price up... but I think worth it.

                              Roger
                              ++++++++++++++++++
                              Roger Davies
                              Unicycle.com in the UK
                              The UK's Unicycle Source
                              www.unicycle.co.uk
                              +++++++++++++++++++

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rogeratunicycledotcom View Post
                                I have just checked the last 3 batches of Nightrider tyre to see the weights. They are pretty consistently 1690g

                                The foss tube is continually under development and it had a big update about a year ago. They changed the material to a more substantial material, it is less clear and more milky in look. Although this makes them a bit heavier, they are a lot more durable and less prone to natural leakage. Unfortunately that change also put the price up... but I think worth it.

                                Roger
                                Not impossible that I order few things from your webshop, how about the cost for shipping to France?
                                - Geared kh36 + Nightrider Lite + Kh Tbar + HS33
                                - Qu-ax 36" + nightrider +Q-handle+ cable rim brake
                                - kh 29" + knard 29x3+ kh Tbar + HS33
                                - Qu-ax trial 19"
                                -24"&26" wheels and forks and spare stuffs.

                                Comment

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