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24muni and 26 muni roll over question

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  • #16
    Originally posted by juggleaddict View Post
    Smaller yes, but there's nothing really changing the maneuverability other than weight and gear ratio.
    I think another factor is the location of the weight, i.e. in a bigger circle, which means it takes more force to move it around. I'm sure there's a physics word to describe that, but hopefully you know what I mean.

    I to love my 36er. These days it's the uni I ride the most (followed by my Muni; everything else is waay after those). But those wheels are definitely best at zooming in a straight line, and not nearly as good at doing slaloms or quick course corrections. Those, of course, are proportional as wheel size goes down (all other things being equal, such as tires). You can slalom through a loose crowd on a 36, but it would be a lot riskier than the same crowd on a 24".
    Still holding out for that 1.5" 36er tire/rim if you're listening unicycle.com!!
    Or even better, if you're going to go that way, make the 1.5" on a 42" rim pleeeeze!
    Used to live in Atlanta, where I could weave through ants marching any time I wanted. Those were great times! I remember riding New Orleans one time during St. Patrick's Day. Dodging/slipping on beads, hopping from sidewalk to road and back again. Super fun. I dunno how I would feel in NYC. I've been there on foot during Macy's, and I would love to ride it, but I would be constantly afraid of getting a ticket. Got any pics of riding in New York?
    Based on your descriptions, you'd probably have a blast riding around NYC. Along with busy streets (and sidewalks), its' also the first place I ever rode on solid rock. That was in Central Park, just outside the Children's Zoo. Tickets? Not sure what they would be for. I think that mostly happens to people who ride daily, and are more likely to encounter bored cops.

    I don't have any great pics handy, but here's my 1983 Holiday card, which I posted online with a bunch of others way back when the Web was a lot smaller. It's me on my 24" Miyata in the Park!
    Attached Files
    John Foss
    www.unicycling.com

    "Who is going to argue with a mom who can ride a unicycle?" -- Forums member "HiMo"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by johnfoss View Post
      I think another factor is the location of the weight, i.e. in a bigger circle, which means it takes more force to move it around. I'm sure there's a physics word to describe that, but hopefully you know what I mean.
      Moment of inertia. : )

      Originally posted by johnfoss View Post
      You can slalom through a loose crowd on a 36, but it would be a lot riskier than the same crowd on a 24".
      That's a fair point.

      Originally posted by johnfoss View Post
      Or even better, if you're going to go that way, make the 1.5" on a 42" rim pleeeeze!
      Man can only dream. I could probably just barely fit a 42. I tried to get in contact with semcycle at one time about their 43, but man, a true pneumatic tire on a wheel that big, that's still light enough to ride. Mmmmm (maybe Kris is hearing our plea?! lol)

      Originally posted by johnfoss View Post
      I don't have any great pics handy, but here's my 1983 Holiday card, which I posted online with a bunch of others way back when the Web was a lot smaller. It's me on my 24" Miyata in the Park!
      That's awesome!!
      Steel is real! => I ride a Nimbus!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Resv View Post
        hey if 5' 8" is short than I guess I'm really short, I am 5' 6"
        I'm 5' 5 1/4 if I round up and I'm not short. The rest of you are abnormally tall!
        Reid

        20 inch Qu-Ax
        26 inch Yuni
        26 inch Flansberrium with 4.7 inch tire
        Two 36 inch Nimbus titans, one for home (Ca) and one for work (Alaska)

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        • #19
          As far as the comment about more auto steer with a wider tyre goes (I haven't quite worked out how to quote yet!), I actually feel it less on my 24" muni with a 3" Duro than I did with a 2.5" hookworm. I think tyre pressure and profile shape have more impact than the actual width. This may or may not be true but it's been my experience.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by OorWullie View Post
            As far as the comment about more auto steer with a wider tyre goes, I actually feel it less on my 24" muni with a 3" Duro than I did with a 2.5" hookworm.
            When on a camber, the tread is forced to twist and runs parallel with the motion while it is in contact with the road. This distortion causes sideways thrusts. Several factors influence the extent and effect of this force.

            Slicks grip the road strongly and continuously. Consequently there is very little opportunity to let go of the distortion. Knobby tyres and block treads let go of this stress as the contact moves from one knob or block to the next.

            A wider tyre is able to distort further before the tread lifts off the road, increasing the thrust.

            A more flexible tyre carcass is able to twist more easily so the side thrust is less for the same displacement.

            Higher pressure reduces the amount of tyre on the road, shortens the length of the contact patch and how far its is displaced sideways during the contact with the road. This reduces the force.

            The turning moment of the force is magnified by leverage due to the distance between the point where the tyre first contacts the road and the virtual steering axis of the uni. This distance is larger on a larger diameter tyre. The leverage distance can be shortened by causing the uni to lean backwards by moving the upper body forwards. Handlebars overcome this turning moment so are often recommended for big wheels on camber.

            The Hookworm is a grooved slick with a very rigid carcass so it is notorious for strong side thrust on cambered surfaces in the larger diameters and widths. The bigger sizes really aren't good on cambered tarmac at all. They are often recommended as a crossover between muni and road but I find they are not much good at either surface. I use one on my 20 inch but its small diameter and narrow width put it below the problem threshold.
            Last edited by OneTrackMind; 2015-11-27, 03:17 AM.
            Triton 36" + 29" | KH 29" | KH 26" | KH 27.5" Muni | Nimbus eSport Race 24" | Torker LX 24" | Qu-Ax Luxus 20" | Qu-Ax Profi 20" | KH / Impact 19" hybrid

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            • #21
              Sale

              There's a Nimbus 24 Gargoyle with Street Kenda Flame 3" tire on sale on UDC now. Might be good for NYC potholes and curbs.
              http://www.unicycle.com/hot-products...-gargoyle.html

              Just sayin'.
              Last edited by Coolkayaker1; 2015-11-27, 05:03 PM.

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              • #22
                The UDC 24" club freestyle will take a 2.35 Schwalbe Crazy bob tyre.
                Actual width is 2.45, weight = 1kg.
                The gap between the tyre and fork legs is 5mm on the 26mm rim, with a 4mm gap at the top.

                The club frame is only 72mm width at the top of the forks, so a 3" is no go.
                UDC (UK) said that the Halo Ception 2.6 will fit in there at a squeeze.

                Last edited by Reeny; 2015-11-30, 12:43 AM. Reason: picture added

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by juggleaddict View Post
                  Smaller yes, but there's nothing really changing the maneuverability other than weight and gear ratio. The 36 is definitely heavy, but I would venture to guess if you had a heavy 26 Muni with short cranks, and a light 36er with long cranks (comparable weights and gear ratios) they would also compare in low speed maneuverability. (this sounds like an experiment for a rainy day) Sometimes the 36 just takes a little more force. O:-) Sluggish may be a good word for it, but I think it's more a matter of setup and not something inherent with the wheel size. I suppose I get a little defensive about the 36 sometimes. I will be the first to admit I'm biased towards them, and advocate them whenever possible. : P Still holding out for that 1.5" 36er tire/rim if you're listening unicycle.com!!

                  I've only just moved to Michigan about a year and a half ago. I miss the heavy foot traffic. Used to live in Atlanta, where I could weave through ants marching any time I wanted. Those were great times! I remember riding New Orleans one time during St. Patrick's Day. Dodging/slipping on beads, hopping from sidewalk to road and back again. Super fun. I dunno how I would feel in NYC. I've been there on foot during Macy's, and I would love to ride it, but I would be constantly afraid of getting a ticket. Got any pics of riding in New York?
                  haha just a pic at the queens city park with the big globe. Once my new tire and cranks get here I'll def take some pics for ya.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by johnfoss View Post
                    A Muni can be a bit overkill (heavy) for city riding, but it really depends on how you want to ride. A typical Freestyle tire, being relatively skinny (by outdoor unicycle riding standards), has to run high pressure to keep from bottoming out on potholes and such. This makes for a harsher ride and higher difficulty level in rolling over things, as you have noticed.
                    You mentioned a 24x3" tire, which would be a huge departure from what you're used to. It's all about tire volume. the fatter the tire, the lower you can run the pressure, and hence the better rollover and bump-eating qualities. A 24x3" tire is close to the same diameter as a 26" "typical" mountain bike tire. If you get a 26x3" tire (make sure the uni can fit it), it'll again be bigger, close to 29", and heavier.
                    Very different. It's all about volume and air pressure. You don't really need a Muni tire for city riding, unless you occasionally want to stray off into the mud somewhere. That's a lot of tire to carry around. I'd recommend a fat "cruiser" tire, like the kind you see on beach cruiser bikes. These are still heavy, but should be lighter than a dirt tire because they leave out all the knobs. On Unicycle.com they have a cool-looking Kenda Flame tire, at 3" wide, which is still probably heavy but looks cool.

                    This is where 26" is an advantage over 24"; tire choice. You have zillions of choices in 26", and waaay less in 24". If your goal is to cover distances, in the City, I recommend 26", or possibly 29". For 29" you can get the Schwalbe Big Apple (that's appropriate!) tire at 2.0", which is an excellent tire for pavement. If I wanted a NYC cruising cycle, I'd get a 29" with that tire. And I have ridden in NYC before, though always on a 24" Freestyle but we didn't have all these choices in the 80s. I also rode a 45" hard-tire big wheel, but that's off-topic.

                    The Schwalbe, or another not-so-heavy tire will give you better volume, but still be lighter and quicker than any dirt or super-fat tires. Don't let your being a beginner push you into a cycle you might not enjoy as much as your skills improve. But if you think you'd prefer an easier cruise on a heavier wheel, consider that Kenda Flame tire on whichever size wheel it comes (24 and 26, I believe).

                    Not sure how you can disagree with a 29" being smaller, or more maneuverable for that matter. I think what you're saying is that a 36" can be quite maneuverable if you want it to be. This is true, but it's always going to be quite a bit more sluggish than a wheel that is smaller and lighter. This is true for any up-sizing you do, assuming the weight and tire type is proportional. What you don't get in Michigan so much is crowded sidewalks (okay, maybe on campus). In NYC I had a lot of fun zooming down crowded sidewalks on my 24" back in the day; something I probably wouldn't do nowadays. At least not as fast.

                    Resv, if you can, go ride with the NY Unicycle Club and see if you can try out some different wheel sizes. Ride them over some bumps, make some turns to get a feel for them and it can help you decide. Also remember that your skills are going to keep improving. Especially if you keep riding on NYC streets and sidewalks! Plus you'll get even more opinions from the owners of those unicycles.
                    THanks for your info!

                    I did 2 miles on the muni tire on my 26, It was okay but I def need a road tire, already ordered with some 127/150's. The roll over was pretty good on the 26 even more so I guess with the duros. I did my first curb jump? not jumped but just rode off it. It was way too easy, so much more confidence with the 26 for bumps.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by waaalrus View Post
                      How tall are you? A 24x3" will roll over obstacles much better than a narrower tire but possibly not as easily as a 26x3" tire. However, as a shorter rider (5'8") I feel that I only started making significant progress in technical riding after I started riding a 24x3" over the last year. Before that I rode a 26x3" for five years. Everyone's different but on this issue I always wonder the relative size of the rider. There are also a lot of.26" riders who started on 24" but recommend the 26" without knowing what their development would have been if they started with a 26".
                      I am 5 6". yea I just got the 26 muni and it is definately a lot easier but I think that has a lot to do with the duro tire it came with too.

                      My BA 26x2 tire is coming in a few days, I'm so excited. thanks for the INFO!!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by saskatchewanian View Post
                        Bigger wheels and fatter tires will give you more ability to roll over obstacles. When I was new to MUni I got a 26x3 and just plowed over everything. It was an awesome feeling.

                        First I would look into the options with your current unicycle, Is there room for a bigger tire? Even a 2.5 can make quite a difference over a 2.0

                        If you were going to spend the money to get another unicycle to better roll over objects though i would strongly suggest you look at a slightly bigger wheel. 26, 29, and even 650B will have better tire selection better rollover and paradoxically actually be lighter than a 24x3. I would love to try out some of the new "mid-fat" tires in those sizes.
                        Your input is appreciated, already got the 26 and love it! going to swap out the duro for some BA 26x2 and start riding hard. Then in about a week going to swap the duro back and try my first muni! So pumped!

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