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Lance Armstrong... WINS!?!?!

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  • BillyTheMountain
    replied
    The downfall of Lance is largely due to a group of people at the low end of bike racing who used the web and social media to take back the sport from dopers. Mainstream media is spineless.

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  • BillyTheMountain
    replied
    Originally posted by Straightarrow View Post
    No surprise to me that he is now defiant, resilient, unbroken, and rightly so, (after reading the testimony of the others involved) unforgiven.
    Do you think a civil suit that takes his $$$ and a jail sentence with a manly cell mate won't change that?

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  • Nurse Ben
    replied
    If any of us in this forum were half as fit and fast as he was, we'd be pretty pleased with ourselves.
    I'd give up a testicle to have 10% of his physical prowess.

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  • Straightarrow
    replied
    Nice post Mike. Incredibly insightful. Every sentence a taproot into the heart of the issue from another angle.

    Originally posted by Mikefule View Post
    ... but the other 95% (or 99%) still came from hard work and determination.
    Amazing to me that he accomplished so much after nearly losing his life multiple times and found a way, against all odds, to come back and compete at a level few are gifted.

    No surprise to me that he is now defiant, resilient, unbroken, and rightly so, (after reading the testimony of the others involved) unforgiven.

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  • Mikefule
    replied
    I think it's enjoyable to enjoy watching professional/elite sport because it has real drama, real achievement, and at its best it is a celebration of what an individual can achieve. A top sportsman needs not only talent and fitness, but also courage, determination, commitment, and many other virtues.

    But at bottom, it's only a game. Winning a bicycle race is not an achievement in the same way as, for example, saving someone's life as a doctor on the night shift in the casualty ward.

    Sport is entertainment for those who choose to watch, in the same way as music is entertainment for those who chose to listen.

    The very sad thing about the Lance Armstrong case is that his achievements, which were in their own way, magnificent, will be for ever tainted and devalued by the fact that he cheated. I don't know if his doping added 1% or 5% to his performance, but the other 95% (or 99%) still came from hard work and determination.

    If any of us in this forum were half as fit and fast as he was, we'd be pretty pleased with ourselves.

    Setting aside that he has been stripped of his titles for cheating, it appears that the guy was a bully and a manipulator too. Someone who had the opportunity to be hugely admired has blown it. That's sad.

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  • BillyTheMountain
    replied
    Is marijuana a performance enhancing drug for snow boarders? Or Olympic Swimming Gold Medalists?

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  • GizmoDuck
    replied
    Originally posted by leo View Post


    Very true, like ephedrine is an ingredient that seems to sit in many cough medicine. Abbey Syrup. Caffeine (found in the urine of Sean Kelly mechanic). Or cocaine (Jan Ullrich, Tom Boonen). Is not going to help you much. Same for masking substances... But you have to draw a line, and if you maintain "zero tolerance" then 0,00000000005 gr. of clenbuterol is too much.
    I actually think there are many drugs that should not be on the banned list. If it's not performance enhancing, then it is pointless testing for it. The sporting body should not be making judgments on recreational or medical use, their role should be to prevent cheating.

    For every test, there are false positives and false negatives, different sensitivity and specificities. It becomes a little meaningless when you start testing for drugs that do not improve performance. It also becomes horrendously expensive if you are testing for hundreds of different substances.

    Masking agents- that's different. They're testing for them because they are used to mask the use of performance enhancing drugs. Diuretics aren't going to aid in cycling much, so I can't imagine why a healthy cyclist would be taking it otherwise. For a jockey though, it is a performance enhancing drug.
    Last edited by GizmoDuck; 2012-10-26, 03:06 PM.

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  • BillyTheMountain
    replied
    The NP's who prescribe the doping reap huge profits and ride top-of-the-line unicycles. But hey, if you want to stand on principles and ride a broken down jalopy be my guest.

    You can't see why that looks self defeating?

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  • Nurse Ben
    replied
    Not caring is one thing.

    But refusing to help in order to make your own enormous profits seems self-defeating on your part.
    Um, refusing to help is in what way defeating?

    I could care less what people do to get ahead, since when has advancement in human society been based on honesty, hard work, and dedication. Dude, you may need to to get some grounding, seriously.

    Face it, you want truth and honesty, there's no such thing. Humans are graced with an intellect and imagination second to none, and sadly we use it for less than grand purposes.

    I refuse to watch or in any way partcipate in the glorification of professional sports. If anything will defeat professional sports and all the associated garbage is if more people would turn it off and do something for themselves.

    It amazes me how much people care about someone they have never met and who has done nothing to improve society, the world, or science. All a pro athlete has done is enriched themselves by creating a spectacle that people are willing to watch and admire. There is a gradation in their complicity, I'll admit, but this is one (LA) that has dragged on waaaay to long.

    Yuck, seriously, this stuff sucks!

    So Billy, is that more clearer
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 2012-10-26, 12:35 AM.

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  • aracer
    replied
    Originally posted by leo View Post
    But one admitted by both, so I don't feel I have to recall or apologize.
    Except it isn't. Evans admits he was tested. Ferrari claims to have tested. DO you really not understand the difference between performing a single test and coaching? Do you think the sports scientists who measure your VO2 max with a ramp test at a lab are coaches?

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  • leo
    replied
    Originally posted by aracer View Post
    Unfortunately, "coached by Ferrari" is an accusation!
    But one admitted by both, so I don't feel I have to recall or apologize.

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  • aracer
    replied
    Originally posted by leo View Post
    What accusation? Can you point out where I wrote something incorrect?
    This bit:
    Originally posted by leo View Post
    8 Cadel Evans (AUS) - Was coached by Michele Ferrari
    Now personally I don't consider carrying out a single test (and not providing anything in the way of a training programme - or, er, other assistance to improve performance) to be coaching. Unfortunately, "coached by Ferrari" is an accusation!

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  • jbtilley
    replied
    Originally posted by BillyTheMountain View Post
    Most people want fair game, and they don't want cheaters to win. And athletes who are MORE amazing got robbed of their medals 7 times by Lance.
    I think pro cycling's image is tarnished enough that many have made the assumption that all pro cyclists are doping. In that world the real contest isn't who rides their bike the fastest, it's who skirts the drug tests the best. Maybe that's why they use yellow jerseys as awards. You just won our cleanest urine contest.
    Last edited by jbtilley; 2012-10-24, 03:41 PM.

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  • BillyTheMountain
    replied
    Originally posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Did you miss the part where I said I don't care about other people doing sports unless they are family or friends?
    Not caring is one thing.

    But refusing to help in order to make your own enormous profits seems self-defeating on your part.

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  • leo
    replied
    Originally posted by aracer View Post
    You were basing your accusation on that link?
    What accusation? Can you point out where I wrote something incorrect?
    What is incorrect is the "one-thousand" pages... without all blank spacers it's more like 700 or less.
    If you read correct, then so far Evans seems the least dirty rider, and of that year the only rider that till date always was clean; just like Armstrong officially failed 0 tests.

    Originally posted by aracer View Post
    I'm sure Ferrari wouldn't have been shy to mention it if he had had some involvement with Evans beyond that.
    I'm sure to, unless his post was a response to downplay rumors at that time.
    I'm also sure he knows in which direction money is (or was) flowing.

    Leave a comment:

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