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Lance Armstrong... WINS!?!?!

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    If I am going to be interested in a sport, it will be a sport that I participate in as either a player or coach.
    As an NP, it could be very profitable for you to prescribe performance enhancing drugs

    Why not help athletes do their very best?
    While you and I are having our cake-and-ice-cream party, the others are having a drink-the-blood-of-the-poor party in the back room. --[QUOTE=maestro8;1433130]

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    • #47
      Does that mean I'm allowed to care about bike racing then?
      Go ask your mom

      Seriously, you know what I'm talking about, the whole male macho sports thing, gotta watch cuz you can't do, play it up big with team paraphenalia, act out when your team wins or losses, silly stuff for silly people.

      I suppose the philosophers didn't envision human's using their leisure time in this way or they might have rethought the advantages of reduced work/increase leisure. Funny, they could have simply looked at the Royalty as an example of what excessive leisure can do to a mind/body

      Do carry on with your hero worship...

      Why not help athletes do their very best?
      Did you miss the part where I said I don't care about other people doing sports unless they are family or friends?
      Last edited by Nurse Ben; 2012-10-23, 06:10 PM.
      I dream of hamsters and elderberries

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      • #48
        Originally posted by maestro8 View Post
        If the fans want to see a drug-free sport, they can watch a chess tournament.
        Aren't chess players allowed to have coffee?
        Three short Gs and a long E-flat™ - UniHoki
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        • #49
          Originally posted by aracer View Post
          That's pretty unfair. As he has clarified, he had one testing session with Ferrari.
          Mind the timeline. I didn't knew in advance he suddenly got the need to downplay the publicly known link till the extend that cannot be denied, so in line with Michelle Ferrari's publication. Two people who confirm the same story, so it is true. Still I doubt you would need such an infamous and expensive doctor for such decision.

          Originally posted by GizmoDuck View Post
          Likewise for salbutamol. If you have asthma and presented to Emergency, the first dose of nebulised salbutamol, would put you over the UCI limit.
          Such legal use should have known at the medical check two days before the prologue, not suddenly after the results of the tests of stage 14.

          Originally posted by GizmoDuck View Post
          I'm not debating guilt or otherwise for Oscar Pereiro, but pointing out that not all PEDs are the same.
          Very true, like ephedrine is an ingredient that seems to sit in many cough medicine. Abbey Syrup. Caffeine (found in the urine of Sean Kelly mechanic). Or cocaine (Jan Ullrich, Tom Boonen). Is not going to help you much. Same for masking substances... But you have to draw a line, and if you maintain "zero tolerance" then 0,00000000005 gr. of clenbuterol is too much.

          You'll get some improvement from anabolic steroids (but not from corticosteroids which Lance Armstrong tested positive to in 1999).
          But besides improving performance (EPO), or power (anabolics), you can also want quick recovery that comes with the usual long term risks.
          I expect there is some benefit there. Although the intralipid affair proofed there doesn't have to be any known benefit to inject an entire top team (except for Raul Alcala) with hardly known substances.

          Originally posted by Nurse Ben View Post
          People, get a life! Kill you TV, stop watching all that crap.
          Now we're talking. But that's what brought me shoulder to shoulder to a tour winner made by Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes.

          If you want to reach the top, you have to look up. And once you've reached the top, there's only one direction...
          So yes, Lance was too fast in many ways.

          Originally posted by GILD View Post
          Aren't chess players allowed to have coffee?
          Plus they have a dress-code. Because it was unsustainable to allow all those sluts in competition.
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          • #50
            Originally posted by leo View Post
            Mind the timeline. I didn't knew in advance he suddenly got the need to downplay the publicly known link till the extend that cannot be denied, so in line with Michelle Ferrari's publication.
            You were basing your accusation on that link? Which quite clearly describes a single testing session (exactly as I clarified) rather than a coaching relationship? I'm sure Ferrari wouldn't have been shy to mention it if he had had some involvement with Evans beyond that. Rather harsh to describe him as being coached by Ferrari in that case - I'm not sure most people would describe performing such tests on one occasion as "coaching".
            Unicycling: great for your thighs.

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            • #51
              Podiums are for poseurs...

              and my wife, I keep her on one most of the time, but only because she'd run away otherwise
              I dream of hamsters and elderberries

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              • #52
                Originally posted by aracer View Post
                You were basing your accusation on that link?
                What accusation? Can you point out where I wrote something incorrect?
                What is incorrect is the "one-thousand" pages... without all blank spacers it's more like 700 or less.
                If you read correct, then so far Evans seems the least dirty rider, and of that year the only rider that till date always was clean; just like Armstrong officially failed 0 tests.

                Originally posted by aracer View Post
                I'm sure Ferrari wouldn't have been shy to mention it if he had had some involvement with Evans beyond that.
                I'm sure to, unless his post was a response to downplay rumors at that time.
                I'm also sure he knows in which direction money is (or was) flowing.
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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Nurse Ben View Post
                  Did you miss the part where I said I don't care about other people doing sports unless they are family or friends?
                  Not caring is one thing.

                  But refusing to help in order to make your own enormous profits seems self-defeating on your part.
                  While you and I are having our cake-and-ice-cream party, the others are having a drink-the-blood-of-the-poor party in the back room. --[QUOTE=maestro8;1433130]

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by BillyTheMountain View Post
                    Most people want fair game, and they don't want cheaters to win. And athletes who are MORE amazing got robbed of their medals 7 times by Lance.
                    I think pro cycling's image is tarnished enough that many have made the assumption that all pro cyclists are doping. In that world the real contest isn't who rides their bike the fastest, it's who skirts the drug tests the best. Maybe that's why they use yellow jerseys as awards. You just won our cleanest urine contest.
                    Last edited by jbtilley; 2012-10-24, 03:41 PM.
                    I'm different, yeah I'm different. I'm different, yeah I'm different. Pull up to the scene and my wheel is missing. Pull up to the scene and my wheel is missing.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by leo View Post
                      What accusation? Can you point out where I wrote something incorrect?
                      This bit:
                      Originally posted by leo View Post
                      8 Cadel Evans (AUS) - Was coached by Michele Ferrari
                      Now personally I don't consider carrying out a single test (and not providing anything in the way of a training programme - or, er, other assistance to improve performance) to be coaching. Unfortunately, "coached by Ferrari" is an accusation!
                      Unicycling: great for your thighs.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by aracer View Post
                        Unfortunately, "coached by Ferrari" is an accusation!
                        But one admitted by both, so I don't feel I have to recall or apologize.
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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by leo View Post
                          But one admitted by both, so I don't feel I have to recall or apologize.
                          Except it isn't. Evans admits he was tested. Ferrari claims to have tested. DO you really not understand the difference between performing a single test and coaching? Do you think the sports scientists who measure your VO2 max with a ramp test at a lab are coaches?
                          Unicycling: great for your thighs.

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                          • #58
                            Not caring is one thing.

                            But refusing to help in order to make your own enormous profits seems self-defeating on your part.
                            Um, refusing to help is in what way defeating?

                            I could care less what people do to get ahead, since when has advancement in human society been based on honesty, hard work, and dedication. Dude, you may need to to get some grounding, seriously.

                            Face it, you want truth and honesty, there's no such thing. Humans are graced with an intellect and imagination second to none, and sadly we use it for less than grand purposes.

                            I refuse to watch or in any way partcipate in the glorification of professional sports. If anything will defeat professional sports and all the associated garbage is if more people would turn it off and do something for themselves.

                            It amazes me how much people care about someone they have never met and who has done nothing to improve society, the world, or science. All a pro athlete has done is enriched themselves by creating a spectacle that people are willing to watch and admire. There is a gradation in their complicity, I'll admit, but this is one (LA) that has dragged on waaaay to long.

                            Yuck, seriously, this stuff sucks!

                            So Billy, is that more clearer
                            Last edited by Nurse Ben; 2012-10-26, 12:35 AM.
                            I dream of hamsters and elderberries

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                            • #59
                              The NP's who prescribe the doping reap huge profits and ride top-of-the-line unicycles. But hey, if you want to stand on principles and ride a broken down jalopy be my guest.

                              You can't see why that looks self defeating?
                              While you and I are having our cake-and-ice-cream party, the others are having a drink-the-blood-of-the-poor party in the back room. --[QUOTE=maestro8;1433130]

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by leo View Post


                                Very true, like ephedrine is an ingredient that seems to sit in many cough medicine. Abbey Syrup. Caffeine (found in the urine of Sean Kelly mechanic). Or cocaine (Jan Ullrich, Tom Boonen). Is not going to help you much. Same for masking substances... But you have to draw a line, and if you maintain "zero tolerance" then 0,00000000005 gr. of clenbuterol is too much.
                                I actually think there are many drugs that should not be on the banned list. If it's not performance enhancing, then it is pointless testing for it. The sporting body should not be making judgments on recreational or medical use, their role should be to prevent cheating.

                                For every test, there are false positives and false negatives, different sensitivity and specificities. It becomes a little meaningless when you start testing for drugs that do not improve performance. It also becomes horrendously expensive if you are testing for hundreds of different substances.

                                Masking agents- that's different. They're testing for them because they are used to mask the use of performance enhancing drugs. Diuretics aren't going to aid in cycling much, so I can't imagine why a healthy cyclist would be taking it otherwise. For a jockey though, it is a performance enhancing drug.
                                Last edited by GizmoDuck; 2012-10-26, 03:06 PM.
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